Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-15-2010, 11:01 AM
A lot of the silence could really be due to the fact that beyond saying "OMG! T3h m0us3 is broken!" there really is very little else in the way of information. Typically, the following information will always be asked for:

1. A DXDIAG of the system in question

2. A copy of the nettest results of which you can read how to get at http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...94&postcount=3

3. Any other details such as if the game has always done this, what else you have done to resolve it, etc.

Just right off the top of my head I can think of four different things, all taking into account the disabling of the hardware mouse acceleration, that could be causing it. However, saying something like "This only happens in STO! No other game behaves like that, not even if I keep playing for hours! So ... the fault is definitely not mine. And I won't buy yet ANOTHER mouse. I'm done!" really does not mean much except the fact that it gives the person a reason to lash out at whomever tries to help with an inevitable "U R n00b" kind of comments and frustrating and/or discouraging the person or persons trying to help.

Sadly, as a lot of people are finding out on a daily basis here a PC is a very complex system of parts and software that works nothing like your console or microwave and can be very frustrating when it comes to issues. However, if the person involved takes a deep breath and instead of saying what is not wrong or how "everything else works" be more willing to try and troubleshoot a problem regardless if it covers ground you feel you covered more people will be inclined to help you rather than running the risk of wasting both their time and yours.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-16-2010, 12:52 AM
Well, I have described my problem with other posts further above in my thread, the frustration just started about yesterday when I found out that there was still no developer replying even though I asked kindly for it so many times.

1. The net test is more than okay, it's good infact. That cannot be the problem, not even close to 180 ms, always clearly below.
2. DX-Diag? Fine, here you go. --> http://www.3rdfleet.com/forum/showth...4355#post24355 (I'd post it here if the forum allowed me to post more than 11'000 chars.)
3. I've tried almost everything my friends suggested me to do, and honestly, I don't cunsider myself a noob, I'm co-leading a large fleet and I even help others out in-game. I think I know the game itself quite okay, not very well, butt okay.

- Eris
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-16-2010, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErisTheVorta View Post
Well, I have described my problem with other posts further above in my thread, the frustration just started about yesterday when I found out that there was still no developer replying even though I asked kindly for it so many times.

1. The net test is more than okay, it's good infact. That cannot be the problem, not even close to 180 ms, always clearly below.
2. DX-Diag? Fine, here you go. --> http://www.3rdfleet.com/forum/showth...4355#post24355 (I'd post it here if the forum allowed me to post more than 11'000 chars.)
3. I've tried almost everything my friends suggested me to do, and honestly, I don't cunsider myself a noob, I'm co-leading a large fleet and I even help others out in-game. I think I know the game itself quite okay, not very well, butt okay.

- Eris
Well, as you are finding out the devs only peek in from time-to-time here and considering the volume of traffic this place gets it's near impossible to see many posts without spending a good hour, two or three times a day, to keep on top of the post count. Heck, I'm even surprised that the Implausable guy (sp?) is able to respond to as many as he does on a daily basis since I gave up a month ago even trying to read everything in here.

Well, with that said let me give this a whack and see where it takes us:

a. Nettest results - While I know they show as good I know from other threads where odd issues like this pop up that having those already posted tends to help out anyway. Remember as well that your internet connection is constantly in flux and while it may be 180ms one moment if you start hitting it hard it could get slower or possibly faster.

For example, one guy was complaining about random disconnects while playing STO and from looking at the nettest results every so often their connection would drop. One person chimed in saying that Cox was doing what is called traffic shaping on their connection since the STO activity was giving the appearance of bittorrent traffic. I've seen this myself at home and had to yell at Comcast to stop jacking with my connection which they've done so far.

Remember, more information never hurts even if everything looks okay so that if and when someone DOES respond they'll not have any reason to cover any of it and can just work forward from there.

b. DXDIAG - I went over to where you posted and was unable to get to it without having to register which I'm loathe to do since I get enough spam mail as it is. :p Rather than have you break up your DXDIAG into separate posts here try doing this:

How to generate a dxdiag report
If you're having additional problems after other troubleshooting, post in these forums and include a copy of your DirectX Diagnostic report.

1. Hold down the Windows key and press the R key. If you don't have a Windows key, then go to "Run" from the Start menu.
.
2. Type dxdiag into the box and press Enter or click "'Ok".
.
3. If you're prompted with a question, just dismiss it for now. Let the progress bar finish before doing anything.
.
4. Click on the "Save All Information" button.
.
5. Click "Save" to save the file to your desktop (default location).
.
6. Open up the newly created file (ie: double-click on it).
.
7. Right click anywhere on the text and choose "Select All" (or press Ctrl-A).
.
8. Right click anywhere on the text and choose "Copy" (or press Ctrl-C).
.
9. Use a pastebin service such as http://pastebin.com/ to paste your copied DXDiag text (Ctrl-V to paste).
.
10. Link your pastebin to your post.

This way it will give myself and anyone else the ability to look at what you have without having to have you repost it anywhere else.

3. N00b thing and other stuff - If I came across like I was calling you a n00b or anything I do apologize since that was not my intention. I was just mainly pointing out some of the flaws in your post that, while I know you are frustrated, can really come across the wrong way or discourage anyone from trying to give you a hand. Too many folks around here post when they are frustrated as it is already so we do not really need to contribute to it.

Other thoughts:

Right now, to be honest, based upon your description it's most likely due to one of four things:

a. Wireless Network latency - Somehow something starts to interfere with your network connection in such a way that it manifests as mouse lag. If the issue happened right away I'd be more inclined to point to something else hardware related. I usually see this on a system running a wireless adapter.

b. Traffic shaping - The reason why I think this is most likely is due to the fact that the issue only seems to appear after you have been playing for some period of time rather than right away. A lot of internet providers are starting to do this whenever they see a lot of data traffic being passed back and forth over an internet connection. Thinking that the person is using bittorrent they start to "shape" the connection by introducing either intermittent hiccups or slowing the connection WAY down. As I mentioned I've had this happen to me before via Comcast and it took me complaining to their CSR rep to get them to stop.

c. Disk activity - Both Vista and Win7 have this rather insidious feature called Superfetch which intermittently will ping your hard drive as it tries to figure out what you are doing and "fetch" the data so that it speeds up disk access. The downside to this is that if you have a system that has a slower hard drive, or not a lot of RAM, your hard drive is constantly going and sounds like a bag of marbles in your PC slowing everything down rather than helping. In addition to this some antivirus programs have a firewall built in that monitors the traffic going in and out of your PC which can also manifest as stuttering during some applications that are network dependent.

I did have a fourth one in mind but it eludes me right now but I think you get the general idea in either case.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyfox View Post
Well, as you are finding out the devs only peek in from time-to-time here and considering the volume of traffic this place gets it's near impossible to see many posts without spending a good hour, two or three times a day, to keep on top of the post count. Heck, I'm even surprised that the Implausable guy (sp?) is able to respond to as many as he does on a daily basis since I gave up a month ago even trying to read everything in here.

Well, with that said let me give this a whack and see where it takes us:

a. Nettest results - While I know they show as good I know from other threads where odd issues like this pop up that having those already posted tends to help out anyway. Remember as well that your internet connection is constantly in flux and while it may be 180ms one moment if you start hitting it hard it could get slower or possibly faster.

For example, one guy was complaining about random disconnects while playing STO and from looking at the nettest results every so often their connection would drop. One person chimed in saying that Cox was doing what is called traffic shaping on their connection since the STO activity was giving the appearance of bittorrent traffic. I've seen this myself at home and had to yell at Comcast to stop jacking with my connection which they've done so far.

Remember, more information never hurts even if everything looks okay so that if and when someone DOES respond they'll not have any reason to cover any of it and can just work forward from there.

b. DXDIAG - I went over to where you posted and was unable to get to it without having to register which I'm loathe to do since I get enough spam mail as it is. :p Rather than have you break up your DXDIAG into separate posts here try doing this:

How to generate a dxdiag report
If you're having additional problems after other troubleshooting, post in these forums and include a copy of your DirectX Diagnostic report.

1. Hold down the Windows key and press the R key. If you don't have a Windows key, then go to "Run" from the Start menu.
.
2. Type dxdiag into the box and press Enter or click "'Ok".
.
3. If you're prompted with a question, just dismiss it for now. Let the progress bar finish before doing anything.
.
4. Click on the "Save All Information" button.
.
5. Click "Save" to save the file to your desktop (default location).
.
6. Open up the newly created file (ie: double-click on it).
.
7. Right click anywhere on the text and choose "Select All" (or press Ctrl-A).
.
8. Right click anywhere on the text and choose "Copy" (or press Ctrl-C).
.
9. Use a pastebin service such as http://pastebin.com/ to paste your copied DXDiag text (Ctrl-V to paste).
.
10. Link your pastebin to your post.

This way it will give myself and anyone else the ability to look at what you have without having to have you repost it anywhere else.

3. N00b thing and other stuff - If I came across like I was calling you a n00b or anything I do apologize since that was not my intention. I was just mainly pointing out some of the flaws in your post that, while I know you are frustrated, can really come across the wrong way or discourage anyone from trying to give you a hand. Too many folks around here post when they are frustrated as it is already so we do not really need to contribute to it.

Other thoughts:

Right now, to be honest, based upon your description it's most likely due to one of four things:

a. Wireless Network latency - Somehow something starts to interfere with your network connection in such a way that it manifests as mouse lag. If the issue happened right away I'd be more inclined to point to something else hardware related. I usually see this on a system running a wireless adapter.

b. Traffic shaping - The reason why I think this is most likely is due to the fact that the issue only seems to appear after you have been playing for some period of time rather than right away. A lot of internet providers are starting to do this whenever they see a lot of data traffic being passed back and forth over an internet connection. Thinking that the person is using bittorrent they start to "shape" the connection by introducing either intermittent hiccups or slowing the connection WAY down. As I mentioned I've had this happen to me before via Comcast and it took me complaining to their CSR rep to get them to stop.

c. Disk activity - Both Vista and Win7 have this rather insidious feature called Superfetch which intermittently will ping your hard drive as it tries to figure out what you are doing and "fetch" the data so that it speeds up disk access. The downside to this is that if you have a system that has a slower hard drive, or not a lot of RAM, your hard drive is constantly going and sounds like a bag of marbles in your PC slowing everything down rather than helping. In addition to this some antivirus programs have a firewall built in that monitors the traffic going in and out of your PC which can also manifest as stuttering during some applications that are network dependent.

I did have a fourth one in mind but it eludes me right now but I think you get the general idea in either case.
Sorry, I haven't noticed this thread before. As you stated it can become difficult to keep up with you all since there are so many posts.

As for this issue I will have to look around for some ideas why this is happening.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-16-2010, 11:48 AM
I play on a 5yo Gateway with and AMD Athlon 64 3500+ clocked at 2.2 GHz, 2gb ram and a N-Vidia G210 graphics card with 512mb ram. If I have something else running in the background the game will act like that for me. Jerky, mouse misbehaving, etc. Also the mouse develops trails on long ground missions no matter what. You may want to check for antivirus, antimalware, or other programs that can aggressively use memory that could be causing your issues. It seems that any JAVA application, such as a combat log parser, really makes my game lag. Just a suggestion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-16-2010, 05:54 PM
As a first attempt try running /SoftwareCursor 1 and see if that makes any difference. If you still notice a problem, switch back to /SoftwareCursor 0, the default.

Are you playing in windowed mode or full screen?
The reason I ask is because the game doesn't do anything special regarding the placement of your mouse; Windows does that itself, STO only tells it which cursor graphic to use (that's why I had you try using a software cursor, the SoftwareCursor command suppresses the windows cursor and tells the game to draw the cursor itself). Try playing in windowed mode, and next time you notice this start to happen, move the mouse outside the bounds of the game window and just move in circles or something. I'm curious to know if the mouse continues to lag when you don't have it over the game. Also make sure you don't click outside the window when doing this, that will cause the game to lose focus, and when does that it doesn't run at full speed.

Also, when you see this lag, is it only the mouse that lags or does the entire game?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-17-2010, 05:04 AM
I sometimes get mouse lag,but not as severe as mentioned by the OP.But the odd thing is,when i get mouse/cursor lag,it always happens when i try to 'catch' a fast moving ship.I then get this weird 'ghosting' effect and a slower moving cursor,and the only thing I can do is log off and back in again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-17-2010, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexeme
Are you playing in windowed mode or full screen?
The reason I ask is because the game doesn't do anything special regarding the placement of your mouse; Windows does that itself, STO only tells it which cursor graphic to use (that's why I had you try using a software cursor, the SoftwareCursor command suppresses the windows cursor and tells the game to draw the cursor itself). Try playing in windowed mode, and next time you notice this start to happen, move the mouse outside the bounds of the game window and just move in circles or something. I'm curious to know if the mouse continues to lag when you don't have it over the game. Also make sure you don't click outside the window when doing this, that will cause the game to lose focus, and when does that it doesn't run at full speed.

Also, when you see this lag, is it only the mouse that lags or does the entire game?
I've gotten what I call a "mouse trails" effect in the game that sounds similar to parts of the cursor lag. I used to play with the game set to Windowed Maximized since I was using dual screens and didn't have to minimize the game to check a website or IM.

Whenever it happened, it would just be in the game. If I moved the cursor to the other screen, it would be fine, but would still act up in the game as soon as I went back to it.

I just recently switched to straight full screen mode and have not noticed and problems with my pointer since then. It seems like it might be related to how the game or Windows is treating the cursor if the game isn't full screen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-17-2010, 11:38 AM
If you guys get multiple mouse cursors, that's something different. That means that for some reason the software mouse got turned on (i.e. the game renders the mouse itself) while at the same time the hardware cursor is on (i.e. windows also tries to render the mouse). This is a bug on our end that we've had trouble hunting down, but running /SoftwareCursor 0 should fix it in the mean time.

Edit: Just remembered, /SoftwareCursorForce 0 might be useful too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-17-2010, 04:24 PM
added note on win7 I was able to remove the trailing double mouse by changing the properties of the exe to disable themes .
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