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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I understand why you did it, some players were complaining about queuing for a match and getting thrown into an ongoing game rather than a brand new instance. You fixed this with the option to "queue for any" and "queue for new". It should have stopped there.

But now the instances seem to close after the first two minutes. What, I ask, was the point?

This is compounded by another 'fix' - some players complained about an opposing team joining a match, and exiting. Your solution was to prevent people from exiting. I have issues with this that I won't bother to address here fully (suffice to say there are times you want to leave, to allow another player to take your place, to remove yourself from a bugged state, or to rejoin a new and fair game when yours did not fill properly).

So you see the problem: You have created a situation where when a map is created but not filled (that is, when five or more for a team are queued but fewer than those five actually enter the map), there is no way for additional players to join, and no way for trapped players to leave.

The only way out is to accept a loss, and allow the enemy to kill you as many times as the map requires. For ground matches this means 40 consecutive stomach-churning deaths that you could not prevent. All to have the chance of getting dealt a fairer hand when you queue again, if you haven't learned your lesson, I suppose. Alternatively, players have to exit the client for 15 minutes. This is a grave inconvenience to say the least.

This series of decisions will kill the longer pvp maps. And if there's any pattern to these poor (and they are poor) solutions, I'd anticipate your next move is to shorten all the maps. Let me just advise in advance to leave that option be.

I do hope you see the problem you've created. I hope I've accomplished that much. If there is any inclination to come up with a real fix, I hope you take the following into consideration:

1) Players do not want to have their characters die meaningless deaths. Certainly not all in order to be allowed to leave a map when they could be doing something else. And when you are mismatched, that is all you currently allow them to do.
2) Players do not want to have to wait 15 minutes to re-enter the game. Not unless it's due to maintenance.
3) There must be some way for people to join an ongoing game if they themselves elect to do so - and the "queue for new game/queue for any game" options allow this perfectly - except that after the first few minutes of progress, the instance is closed, and selecting "queue for any game" will never admit you (the queue will actually disappear on your screen).
4) None of your fixes address the most serious, most grievous offense in pvp that is currently able to take place, and that offense is leaching, which is a player joining a map, dying, and not respawning or communicating on purpose in order to collect the reward (especially dailies in salvage operation).

And when you do have a fix for #4, please consult us players before you make (1-3) even worse than they are now (and it is pretty unfortunate right now). For instance, do not institute a spawn timer to fix leaching - not unless you replace the Abort Mission option for those players legitimately waiting for a full group to come in.

There are not many who are affected by this, it doesn't hurt to ask the few active players (at least for ground maps this is true) you've got.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-13-2010, 11:48 PM
Don't worry, with 4+ hour wait times to join ANYTHING (getting longer by the day) during off peak hours, PvP will be a non-issue very soon.
Problem FIXED!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-14-2010, 01:40 PM
I've got gripes in this area as well.

I don't really ground PvP, so I can't speak to that. I do know that in space PvP, players can join within the first 2 minutes of the match and it seems to open up again after about 15 minutes. Don't ask me why. Doesn't really help much if you have players drop in when you're already down by umpteen points in an unbalanced PvP match, imho.

I agree completely with your suggestions. And Cryptic took down the option to drop from matches while they figure out how to implement a penalty for doing so. They appear to be taking their sweet time. My question is, "Why?" Why not wait until they actually have the drop penalty in place instead of screwing up the existing PvP system? I imagine many heated debates over the new penalty system taking place in a Cryptic conference room somewhere in the sky. Probablly too optimistic of me...

To your point #4, I'd suggested in another thread that Cryptic add some sort of abuse-proof "kick player from team" vote option to weed out those leechers you mention. Again, it would have to be abuse-proof, which would be difficult to implement, I admit. Thoughts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-14-2010, 01:44 PM
The queue system is completely screwed. Simple fix: Don't start a round until all players are on the map and the teams are full on both sides. Penalize people for leaving rounds by not being able to queue for awhile.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-14-2010, 03:18 PM
The queue system is completely screwed. Simple fix: Don't start a round until all players are on the map and the teams are full on both sides. Penalize people for leaving rounds by not being able to queue for awhile.
__________________
Vidoka Miyonus - Science Officer - RA5 - Ground Debuff - DPS & Debuff - Fleet Escort

____________________

that is what WOW does and it works well. The queues are horrible! There will be four of each side waiting for a match and the match starts and there will be three on one team and one on another! I liked it better before these last changes. I think the solution is to get rid of the new buttons for new and any pvp match, let people leave the matches but make them "Deserters" like WOW does where they can't sign up for another pvp match for fifteen minutes.

People should be happy to join a match that is almost over!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-14-2010, 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyJim
I understand why you did it, some players were complaining about queuing for a match and getting thrown into an ongoing game rather than a brand new instance. You fixed this with the option to "queue for any" and "queue for new". It should have stopped there.

But now the instances seem to close after the first two minutes. What, I ask, was the point?

This is compounded by another 'fix' - some players complained about an opposing team joining a match, and exiting. Your solution was to prevent people from exiting. I have issues with this that I won't bother to address here fully (suffice to say there are times you want to leave, to allow another player to take your place, to remove yourself from a bugged state, or to rejoin a new and fair game when yours did not fill properly).

So you see the problem: You have created a situation where when a map is created but not filled (that is, when five or more for a team are queued but fewer than those five actually enter the map), there is no way for additional players to join, and no way for trapped players to leave.

The only way out is to accept a loss, and allow the enemy to kill you as many times as the map requires. For ground matches this means 40 consecutive stomach-churning deaths that you could not prevent. All to have the chance of getting dealt a fairer hand when you queue again, if you haven't learned your lesson, I suppose. Alternatively, players have to exit the client for 15 minutes. This is a grave inconvenience to say the least.

This series of decisions will kill the longer pvp maps. And if there's any pattern to these poor (and they are poor) solutions, I'd anticipate your next move is to shorten all the maps. Let me just advise in advance to leave that option be.

I do hope you see the problem you've created. I hope I've accomplished that much. If there is any inclination to come up with a real fix, I hope you take the following into consideration:

1) Players do not want to have their characters die meaningless deaths. Certainly not all in order to be allowed to leave a map when they could be doing something else. And when you are mismatched, that is all you currently allow them to do.
2) Players do not want to have to wait 15 minutes to re-enter the game. Not unless it's due to maintenance.
3) There must be some way for people to join an ongoing game if they themselves elect to do so - and the "queue for new game/queue for any game" options allow this perfectly - except that after the first few minutes of progress, the instance is closed, and selecting "queue for any game" will never admit you (the queue will actually disappear on your screen).
4) None of your fixes address the most serious, most grievous offense in pvp that is currently able to take place, and that offense is leaching, which is a player joining a map, dying, and not respawning or communicating on purpose in order to collect the reward (especially dailies in salvage operation).

And when you do have a fix for #4, please consult us players before you make (1-3) even worse than they are now (and it is pretty unfortunate right now). For instance, do not institute a spawn timer to fix leaching - not unless you replace the Abort Mission option for those players legitimately waiting for a full group to come in.

There are not many who are affected by this, it doesn't hurt to ask the few active players (at least for ground maps this is true) you've got.
What he said!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-30-2010, 12:44 PM
I love it when you are stuck in a match with one person on the other team that won't respawn....or even better...NO other team. Been stuck in an empty match for 20 mins before just logging on another toon. Oh and people still leave...they just log other toons now...really can't figure out how this was ever a good idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-30-2010, 04:10 PM
It really was poorly thought out and executed since you don't even have to log out and you can still exit the match. I get leaving when someone won't respawn or there isn't anyone there but the people who leave just because it is unevenly queued make no sense. They waited through weak queue's to land themselves in a lopsided match so instead of trying their best they spare their ego's and leave to reenter the weak queue's to land themselves in... you get the picture. Get over yourselves and play right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-30-2010, 04:51 PM
Yeah I will try my best if outnumbered...I have won matches being outnumbered before too so I know that it can be done. If it's really bad it is still quicker to just run and die 40 times than wait 15 minutes and you at least get points and such for it so leaving seems really stupid unless you have too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-30-2010, 05:42 PM
All these problems would not exist if when called for a PvP match, people actually went. And stayed till the end even if they are getting beaten.

But no, the PvP playerbase demands the right to screw up other players and moan if Cryptic tries to mitigate their selfishness.
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