Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 21
05-20-2010, 09:22 AM
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
i think he understands the whole prime/alternate universe thing, he's trying to wrap his head around how in the alternate universe there is a tuvok, janeway lives, worf was born 100 years earlyer etc etc etc.

you clarrified that worf was before the alternate timeline, but what about tuvok and janeway ? >_>

i'm thinking op has alternate and orignal universes confused as to what happened in which timeline, and just needs clarification... i haven't red the book though so i can't clarrify, sorry
The game takes place in the original timeline which is unaffected by the alterations made in the film.

ORIGINAL TIMELINE: Nero and Spock disappear. Vulcan still exists. The events of ENTERPRISE, TOS, TAS. TMP through UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, TNG, DS9, VOYAGER, GENERATIONS through NEMESIS are completely unaffected by Spock and Nero's actions.

STAR TREK (2009) TIMELINE: An entirely separate universe corrupted by Nero. EXPLICITLY stated by Spock Prime IN THE FILM.
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# 22
05-20-2010, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Doofy-117 View Post
So I have been reading this book over the past couple days to find myself getting aggravated. Please feel free to correct me on anything I might be wrong about. From my understanding this book is taking place after the Star Trek Movie (2009) where Nero destroys Vulcan.

From the STO MMO perspective the game follows the "prime universe" (the universe that Spock and Nero left)

My question is why does Michael A Martin get to decide the future of the new star trek timeline?

For example if the book is following the Star Trek Movie (where there is only about 10,000 Vulcans left) why is there a Tuvok.? Wouldn't you think that the chances are a lot smaller now that he even exists because most of his race was killed (meaning his ancestors, mother, father could have been killed).

***Possible Spoiler****

Another example is when he Sisko interviews General Worf. Now Worf was almost killed by Nero. Based on this information Worf was born a hundred years earlier. Nero went back in 2233, attacked Vulcan 25 years later(2258) and Worf was the General when they attacked Nero.

My point I am trying to make is why does the author get to decide the fate of the characters of the new Star Trek? If you really think about everything Michael Martin made minor changes to the timeline (Janeway is alive instead of dead), why does their even have to be a Janeway?

Please comment, I am trying to wrap this all in my head.

First of, the events in "Star Trek 09" take place over 100 years in the past (from the game's perspective) in an alternate "quantum" reality. Alternate realities are a concept not alien to Star Trek and based on the Many-Worlds Theory.
As for Worf's struggle w/ Nero, that happened BEFORE Nero traveled back in time shortly after Romulus was destroyed. Those events can be seen in the comic book "count down". In short though after Romulus was destroyed, Nero went on a rampage attacking anything in sight, he upgrades his ship w/ Romulan/Borg tech, the Klingons send a fleet to stop him, Worf was in charge of the fleet, Nero nearly kills Worf, Nero escapes travels back in time and creates an all new and separate reality.
There was a Worf in the past that defended Kirk and Spock in "Undiscovered country". That Worf was the grandfather of the Worf in TNG.
As for Janeway, I never remember her dying. Last time we saw Janeway she was an admiral and was sending Picard off to meet w/ the Romulans in "Nemesis".
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# 23
05-20-2010, 10:33 AM
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Orci and Kurtzman did back away from that, saying they didn't really consult Abrams about the comic and that they are currently a "council of three" in determining canon. So it's 2/3rds canon and Abrams COULD veto it.

It's the equivalent of what would have happened fifteen years ago if Braga and Moore and Taylor worked on a comic book without consulting Berman.
Never even heard of this and since on the back cover of the comic it says the "official movie prequel" I take it as such.
It also says "JJ Abrams, Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Mike Johnson, Tim Jones and David Messina present the origin of Nero, the mysterious Romulan who will ultimately threaten the survival of the entire universe. Don't miss the story that birngs Star Trrek back to the big screen!" So clearly Abranms must have had some knowledge of the project since he was credited for it.
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# 24
05-20-2010, 11:51 AM
All I know is, everything I've read about this novel says it's awful, so when I passed by it at the bookstore yesterday, I let it sit on the shelf!
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# 25
05-20-2010, 12:16 PM
The book is actually not bad. It is written as a serioies of interviews and articles as published by Jake Sisko. There have been much worse books from Star Trek.
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# 26
05-20-2010, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by attilio View Post
It is true that Worf's ancestor was Kirk and McCoy's lawyer, but this isn't the Worf that Nero fought. Nero fought the Worf from TNG and DS9 before ever going back in time with Spock.
I remember Michael Dorn who played the part said it was Worf's ancestor to explain why he looked so much alike. It may have been in the novel version of the movie but they never had Worf reference it later. Would have been a good time to do it when they did Generations and at the time they thought Kirk died on the Enterprise-B instead of being sucked into a ribbon.
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One of the interviews done in the book is with two "time cops" from the Federation Department of Temporal Investigations (DTI). The officers are Dulmer and Lucsly (who were also the two agents that interviewed Ben Sisco after the Trials-and-tribble-ations situation).

Basically the interview goes like this:
Jake goes to a Federation mental institution to interview two former DTI operatives (Dulmer and Lucsly - although I think their spelling was slightly different) who were somewhat publicly active during the Undine war. Luscly states that their (and the DTI's) involvement in the Undine war was relatively minor and that there were no prominent time incursions during the war.

Dulmer, however, seems to hold a different view. Unfortunately, he is also considered "damaged" by his colleagues and is currently being treated for a mental disorder characterized by real memories of events that never occurred.

Dulmer seems to have real memories (as confirmed by mind-melds) of events that even his partner (and to a certain point, Jake) believe did not occur. Of primary relevance to Jake's interview is that he recalls a great deal of effort being spent to correct the various Undine temporal incursions and that the efforts on the part of the DTI may not have been 100% successful in restoring all changes to the timeline. The implication is that there are likely several anomalies - or inconsistencies- that will periodically emerge (although they may not be recognized as such). He referenced the "authentic" image of Gabriel Bell actually being an image of Ben Sisco as an example of how these anomalies may manifest themselves.

While Jake has to acknowledge that any statements by Dulmer cannot be substantiated, he recognizes Dulmer's orderly in the institution as Q and suspects that Dulmer's statements are more likely than not accurate in one or more alternate realities (in order to have caught Q's interest).

I found this interview (the book is essentially a series of interviews made by Jake Sisco relating to the Undine war) to be probably one of the most relevant to the Star Trek Online universe (and to the potential of the game itself). I base this on the following two points made during the interview (although they are not clearly relevant to Jake's purpose):

1) By seeding the concept of temporal interference (even in the pursuit of protecting the Federation's history *as the DTI views it*) creating slight temporal inconsistencies, the game has something of a safety net for any inconsistencies that emerge between Star Trek (prime universe) history and history as presented in the context of Star Trek Online. Kind of clever, in a way. Little things that have been pointed out (such as inconsistent dates and spelling from the "Path to 2409") now (arguably) have an in-universe explanation.

2) (And to me, this is a biggie.) Dulmer has a short breakdown where he starts relating events that Jake and Luscly clearly know as not having happened. He talks of Admiral Janeway's death and the destruction of several key Federation worlds during the great Borg invasion. He then is confused when he mentions Vulcan during this conflict, since he has a conflicting memory that Vulcan was destroyed long ago. Obviously, these "memories" are references to the Borg invasion from the Destiny series of novels and Nero's successful destruction of Vulcan in the "Alternate" universe of the recent film. The fact that he is aware of these events, even though they clearly did not occur in the timeline of the game (it is a "Star Trek Online" novel, not a "Star Trek" novel, after all) may imply that some action(s) on the part of the DTI in the game timeline secured the Federation from the effects of these events. This opens the door to allow the Star Trek Online game to explore these events in the context of acting on behalf of the DTI to prevent them from affecting the Star Trek Online timeline. Again, this could be clever. (Although it would also require some licensing permissions to truly be done effectively.)

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