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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
05-21-2010, 09:49 AM
What CCP calls "Sandbox' I call 'Derailed Database Hammering'
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
05-21-2010, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekhan
Pretty cool article. But I'm not sure it's really a definitive argument in the sandbox vs. theme park debate.

While I agree that it's a viable strategy to create a sandbox on a shoestring budget, EVE's first year or two were very, very lean for CCP.
I would say that STO's first year is shaping up to be very very lean, Rekhan. No offense, but I think we both know that what STO is currently pulling down is a far cry from what was expected or hoped for.

I believe that sandbox mechanics need to be employed in this game to function as transitional content between one wave of themepark missions and the next. That way, nobody can say "there's nothing to do".

Sandbox minigames also lend themselves to alternative content for people who just don't feel like running missions today, or meaningless exploration sector runs.

I read the "Great Scam" and while the unscrupulous nature of the protagonist is something I find reprehensible, the earlier part of it where it talks about trade routes, pirates and so forth actually makes me want to give EVE a try. And it makes me want to forget about STO. What EVE offers is a chance for players to really make something of themselves in the game. To do things that have an actual lasting impact. Where you live or die by your choices.

As it is now, STO offers a player a chance to dabble in a shallow representation of a great IP, where nothing he or she does has a lasting effect on them or anyone else. Where it doesn't matter if you live or die so choices don't really matter. Where no matter what you do, you're not making anything of yourself.

I've never played EVE before. But what I have read of it, with perhaps the exception of the massive expense for obtaining ships and replacing the ones that get blown up, is what I would have liked to see in STO, from a "meaningful things to do" standpoint. I think that is EVE's appeal. It grabs the attention of people who want to have a meaningful and potentially lasting impact on the game. So without making an EVE clone, but pulling from the massive number of examples from Star Trek itself, I am sure that Cryptic can find ways of delivering meaningful gameplay through sandbox and mini-game mechanics.

Just my opinion...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
05-21-2010, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
not the open, lawless world of EVE pvp.
Agreed...we need a more defined and conventional war model, restricted to war zones.

We also need more than 1...more then 2 spawn/entry points into a system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
05-21-2010, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
I would say that STO's first year is shaping up to be very very lean, Rekhan. No offense, but I think we both know that what STO is currently pulling down is a far cry from what was expected or hoped for.

I believe that sandbox mechanics need to be employed in this game to function as transitional content between one wave of themepark missions and the next. That way, nobody can say "there's nothing to do".

Sandbox minigames also lend themselves to alternative content for people who just don't feel like running missions today, or meaningless exploration sector runs.

I read the "Great Scam" and while the unscrupulous nature of the protagonist is something I find reprehensible, the earlier part of it where it talks about trade routes, pirates and so forth actually makes me want to give EVE a try. And it makes me want to forget about STO. What EVE offers is a chance for players to really make something of themselves in the game. To do things that have an actual lasting impact. Where you live or die by your choices.

As it is now, STO offers a player a chance to dabble in a shallow representation of a great IP, where nothing he or she does has a lasting effect on them or anyone else. Where it doesn't matter if you live or die so choices don't really matter. Where no matter what you do, you're not making anything of yourself.

I've never played EVE before. But what I have read of it, with perhaps the exception of the massive expense for obtaining ships and replacing the ones that get blown up, is what I would have liked to see in STO, from a "meaningful things to do" standpoint. I think that is EVE's appeal. It grabs the attention of people who want to have a meaningful and potentially lasting impact on the game. So without making an EVE clone, but pulling from the massive number of examples from Star Trek itself, I am sure that Cryptic can find ways of delivering meaningful gameplay through sandbox and mini-game mechanics.

Just my opinion...
EvE I played and sorry I find it to be the most arguably the most boring I've ever played.
The games excitement is really player based. Don't count on the content to excite you because at best you will yawn. I played it for 2 weeks and put it this way. I love sci fi but STO is far more interesting with potential. Notice I said potential. If I choose between EvE and STO its STO. I have lifetime yes, but EvE is just god aweful BOOOOORRRRINNNG. Some find it fun and that's why they are playing it right now.
I , however, don't like it all and the first impression of it was terrible. In some ways it reminded me of an old game "Elite" GONE WILD! LOL!! If anyone knows what game I'm talking about then your an old fart too.
But Elite gone wild is what EvE is to me and where the idea even came from.
Not a bad game just not my style of one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
05-21-2010, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Agreed...we need a more defined and conventional war model, restricted to war zones.

We also need more than 1...more then 2 spawn/entry points into a system.
If I were to put in a system I would allow for global flags for players. you can chose to put up a flag, and fly around, but you run the risk of PVP with the other faction who has their flag up. now when you run in to someone it will act the same as the deep space encounters. but instead of one big map, you would be sent to your own map with the other player. ( best part is do you don't have to make new maps, use the ones we have now, and just put them in areas where they would normally be in game. ) and you would need two spawn points on the map. you could also use a call for help feature where if you are in trouble so others could join. as for the score, maybe if your killed your ejected from the instance, and your flag is disabled for 5 minutes. ( or something like that ) and the hull of the defeated ship will give an reward to the winner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
05-21-2010, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
If I were to put in a system I would allow for global flags for players. you can chose to put up a flag, and fly around, but you run the risk of PVP with the other faction who has their flag up.
Were that to lead to the spamming of "DUEL MEH NAO!!!" requests like you see everywhere in WoW, then in no way would I want it here in STO. I would personally prefer PvP oriented zones (ie. the Neutral Zone) like you have in CoX. The queque system just doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned. It was a nice idea, but it is too problematic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
05-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syrinx
I agree with what you say. The game is not finished (and take this the right way) I hope it never is

It will always be the same though. The crafting is a joke, yes, but regarding End game, ie. Raids (maybe?) 5 mans, dailies, these all become sandbox. The achievement all happens on the first successful completion, and then any future runs are for the sake of it.

Crafting is only for 2 things anyway. To be able to make something of worth to yourself, or to make something of worth to someone else that gains you cash to get something of worth to yourself. It is still nice to have though.

Guildwars was quite clever in avoiding the stagnation, despite having a level cap of 20 that you reached in about 2 days, and that was the continued aquisition of powers. You actually had to go hunting the world in order to get the better abilities, and there were literally hundreds to find. It's content in a way, but in STO, it wouldn't take away the problem of 'click 5 of these-beam up' 'kill 5 squadrons-warp out'.
LOL! I completely got your point. COMPLETELY. And I couldn't agree more I hope never is either!
With that said though there are some priorities. These are mine some may or may not follow suit.

1) Klingon Content enough said
2) Sector Content. Where? What? Add about 1000 more of them to boldy go and this is the only part I hope remains unfinished for the life of the game. I'm not asking for 1000 sectors I'm saying they need to be constantly releasing more of them.
3) Starfleet Command and Diplomatic Missions. Where the hell is San Fran ? Oversight ?
What was there a nuc war that obliterated it on this tme line. This is just disgusting to launch it without San Fran. Thats not oversight that's just not understanding Star Trek in my opinion.
4) Crafting. Memory Alpha what? You call that crafting? I call it fancy mining.
Now add about 8-10 more options that I can do.

So aside from just hoping it's never done. I hope a baseline can be established as right now we just have Star and no Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
05-21-2010, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
Were that to lead to the spamming of "DUEL MEH NAO!!!" requests like you see everywhere in WoW, then in no way would I want it here in STO. I would personally prefer PvP oriented zones (ie. the Neutral Zone) like you have in CoX. The queque system just doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned. It was a nice idea, but it is too problematic.
that's not the WOW way. (it mite be but I'm not sure ) it how it was done back in SWG. it kept you kn your toes because you could be attacked at any time. but at the same time you had the option no to play. In my time there I had never had anyone come up to me and say duel me now, and ganking was fixed with the flag being disable when you loaded in to a planet. ( same thing could happen here when loading in to sector space, but it mite not be a problem if your in your own instance. )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
05-21-2010, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
If I were to put in a system I would allow for global flags for players. you can chose to put up a flag, and fly around, but you run the risk of PVP with the other faction who has their flag up. now when you run in to someone it will act the same as the deep space encounters. but instead of one big map, you would be sent to your own map with the other player. ( best part is do you don't have to make new maps, use the ones we have now, and just put them in areas where they would normally be in game. ) and you would need two spawn points on the map. you could also use a call for help feature where if you are in trouble so others could join. as for the score, maybe if your killed your ejected from the instance, and your flag is disabled for 5 minutes. ( or something like that ) and the hull of the defeated ship will give an reward to the winner.
Naw...PvP flagging is so unimmersive. Just keep non-PvP areas...basically faction space. Then create sectors that are purley for PvP faction combat. No need to flag, there is only one reason to be in these sectors to fight or contribute to your faction's interests in the area...leaving you open to PvP from the other faction. Thats not to say their cant PvE content, just that the PvE content has the potential for PvP interactions too.

So the interdiction of Federation supply convoys might be PvE in nature, in that the suplly ships are NPCs, but its open to PvP interaction due to the fact that Federation players might be activly escorting the NPCs, or that passing Fed players are able to see the active PvE instance and could join it to defend.

When outside of combat areas, you shouldnt be able to see players of the other faction...because we shouldnt b able to enter other faction's space. This doesnt exclude the use of instanced missions in other faction's space as PvE content...because you really arent entering the enemy faction's Sector Space...you are likly picking up the mission from your side of the border and being "dropped off" in your own mission instance where you arent really in the oppossing faction's sector space...you arent able to leave and can roam in the opposing factions sector.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
05-21-2010, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Naw...PvP flagging is so unimmersive. Just keep non-PvP areas...basically faction space. Then create sectors that are purley for PvP faction combat.

When outside of combat areas, you shouldnt be able to see players of the other faction...because we shouldn't be able to enter other faction's space.
I don't see how it would break immersion. if you ask me it makes more sense. the fact that Klingon and feds are cooped up in there own space is kind of silly. A klingon should be able to come over here and hunt, and the federation should be able to go over, and scan ( I guess, what do fed do really ). if you are worried about seeing klinks, then maybe if the flag is off then the other faction is hidden. ( or since there are instances in sector space. maybe an instance of sector space where you can only get in if you have your flag up. problem solved you don't want to see them you don't have to. ) with a setup like that we Could have the PVE style stuff you posted, and it would save time that could be spent on episodes.

as for the idea of a new area, where? we already have the boarder between the feds, and the klinks covered. ( there is one small area. but that is in their space. ) it would be unimmersive to me if we had a special map for PVP just out in the middle of nowhere.
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