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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-22-2010, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
newsflash, there aren't thousands of good players in this game. most escorts can't outdamage a healspecced cruiser, most cruiser don't understand that they're not the USS Enterprise.
But that's exactly my point. Cyptic's built this game so that everyone is captaining the Enterprise. We're all billed as the heroes of the Alpha Quadrant. This is the target that they're adjusting to, and the gameplay that they ultimately want. Right or wrong, this is what they intend for the game.

We're simply not supposed to take down an enemy in 3 seconds. Until you understand their vision of the game (whether we agree with it or not), you'll never have any luck influencing the direction of the game.
If you work within the system, within their parameters, then you can start to see some results. Only then can you nudge the combat model in the direction you'd like to see it go, as long as it fits within those basic parameters. Otherwise, you're asking for something they're just not willing to consider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn

But we do know what we're talking about. The game on tribble is slow. the game is passive, boring, and even more reliant on teamwork. They're not rage quitting because of balance, their ragequitting out of BOREDOM. If they didn't quit out of boredom they would be roflstomping pugs even worse than on holodeck.
And the answer is to make it fun for everybody, or at least as large a part of the playerbase as possible, where now it's only fun for a select few. If that large part of the playerbase can't figure it out, or for reasons of trying to play within certain self-imposed limits because they want to be as close as possible to Star Trek, then that's what Cryptic's going to do.

They are not going to cater to a small group of players who feel elitist because they learned how to stack the right skills together.

The answer is to make PvP more accessible, with scaleable difficulty and complexity, so the more advanced players can get as complex as they want, and the folks who just want a casual 20 minutes with a USB game controller in PvP can get that too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-22-2010, 01:11 PM
I'm going to stick my neck out here and just say that I like the idea of slightly slower paced combat. Mainly because I'm a slow old man, lol.

However, I don't think that nerf bludgeoning all damage is the solution. The possibility of 30 minute 5v5 matches doesn't appeal to me. If they're going to nerf damage as much as it looks like, then in my opinion, they need to remove RSP, or change it to just a big shield resist buff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-22-2010, 01:15 PM
In none of my posts have I ever once claimed to be "elite" or even that I'm one of the better PvPers in STO. I'll let my performance in matches speak for itself, whatever the outcome. However, if I'm going to come up against other players, I like it to be challenging. If there's no challenge, what's the point? If there's no motivation to get better, why PvP?

People forget that PvP (in most MMOGs), by nature, precludes the possibility of everyone being "Captain Kirk" simultaneously. If I remember correctly, there was only one Captain Kirk in TOS (unless you count the mirror universe...). Sometimes you have to settle for being Captain Pike, or even Captain Jellico.

Anyway, PvP is competetive, just like any sport. How many sports/games can you think of in which everyone has an equal chance to win, regardless of individual ability? That's why I applaud fleets like D.O.B and . Section 31 . - they're some of the better PvPers I've come up against. If you get rolled by a tight group of good players, it should make you want to improve your style/build. Obviously, if a handful can be at the top, anyone can be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-22-2010, 03:12 PM
The funny thing is, nomatter what cryptic does to the game the good pvp players will always kill the clueless ones. So the constant rants to nerf this and nerf that will never stop.

Give both a stick and the one who knows how to use the stick will 98% of the time slaughter the one who does not. Then what is to be done you can't nerf the stick or can u?

Point being even if they gave us all the same skills, ships and so on ppl who have no clue will always die in pvp and run to the forums nerf this and that even if everything was the same for all in skills, ship, weaps and so on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-22-2010, 03:41 PM
Who are the high end players? Is there something higher than RA5? Is a RA5 PvPer not the Highest End player? I hope that a RA5 PvE player is not considered "The Highest End" player. Because I have to tell you...A drunk monkey having sex with a flat football can do RA5 high end PvE...

"ALL" PvPers had to do PvE before they could PvP, and most still PvE to a point. Most PvEers "do not" or "have not" PvPed...I understand PvE makes up the bulk of the players in STO but, I blame that on STO for not making it more worthwhile to learn how to PvP. It would be very easy to incorporate PvE schemes into a PvP orientated episode, FvK in a save the disabled ship mission??? I can see it. That would be very challenging indeed.

So "The High End" players would be STO's "most" experienced and "well rounded" players, ie: PvPers. I am not talking about the PvP players that do a couple of PvP Ques and get smoked, than complain about it. I am talking about the players that are doing a 60/40 split or better, PvP vs PvE game playing time. STO should listen to us a little more...we know what we're talking about when it comes to game combat and general play.

By the time we get to RA5 there should be no "easy button" for PvP or PvE and maybe thats the problem. Its to easy to get to the High End game. Toughen up the players in the lower ranks, so when they play with the Big Dogs, they don't get pee'ed on.

My 2 credits worth
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-22-2010, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
there aren't thousands of good players in this game
So now we get to the meat of what you mean: "good players means just me, do what I say". I hope you didn't think this would be convincing.

Quote:
But we do know what we're talking about. The game on tribble is slow.
Did you read what I wrote? You do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen the finished patch. Because it does not exist yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachVerant
So "The High End" players would be STO's "most" experienced and "well rounded" players, ie: PvPers. I am not talking about the PvP players that do a couple of PvP Ques and get smoked, than complain about it. I am talking about the players that are doing a 60/40 split or better, PvP vs PvE game playing time.
So basically all the Klingon players? (I fly a bus, for what it's worth)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-22-2010, 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badlander View Post
The funny thing is, nomatter what cryptic does to the game the good pvp players will always kill the clueless ones. So the constant rants to nerf this and nerf that will never stop.

Give both a stick and the one who knows how to use the stick will 98% of the time slaughter the one who does not. Then what is to be done you can't nerf the stick or can u?

Point being even if they gave us all the same skills, ships and so on ppl who have no clue will always die in pvp and run to the forums nerf this and that even if everything was the same for all in skills, ship, weaps and so on.
This is so true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-22-2010, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miiru
So now we get to the meat of what you mean: "good players means just me, do what I say". I hope you didn't think this would be convincing.

Never said that, the game only has a few thousand players, and at that most of the players have not truly dived into pvp. Most players only do enough pvp to satisfy their daily quest requirements, then ***** about balance. There are great players in the game, but there are certainly NOT thousands of good players in the game. The game is not doing as well as you think it is. The playerbase is diminishing weekly, and most of the people leaving are in fact the better players.

Did you read what I wrote? You do not know what you are talking about because you have not seen the finished patch. Because it does not exist yet.

Then by that logic the entire world is sunshine and butterflies. It must be assumed that the patch being described is the current balance. Should the patch change then the balance will change. In all the versions however, the gameplay is slow and boring. We DO know we are talking about because we have seen what the results of doing so in past games have been.


So basically all the Klingon players? (I fly a bus, for what it's worth)

Hate to say it, but most Klinks only decent players (at best, there are still alot of horrible klinks). They just suck less then feds. The average klink pug beats the average fed pug, but the average fed premade roflstomps the average klink premade. Of course you may say that there are some amazing Klink DPS'rs but thats what about 95% of the klink population plays. It is really hard to find a good support player if you play on the klingon side.
Closing words:

Prove me wrong. You can forum war against me all you want, say we don't actually know what we're talking about, throw mud at our reputations. I've honestly stopped caring about what people think about me. I'm helpful if you ask; but when people started calling the good players "elitist" for offering their opinions and giving advice (and SHOWING that they're good), ya, now we have a problem.

When all the good players leave, I guess we would be wrong, because all the crappy players suddenly became better when the competition gets worse. Doesn't change the fact the game is hemorrhaging players at an alarming rate. Sure, the balance team is scrambling to speed up the rate of combat from the godawefully slow tribble version but it doesn't change the fact that they're insisting on using a terrible method to do it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-23-2010, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
The playerbase is diminishing weekly, and most of the people leaving are in fact the better players.
And you also have access to the player population numbers that the rest of us don't! Must be nice to be you.

Quote:
It must be assumed that the patch being described is the current balance
When people are actively working on the patch, with the developers, who are making changes every few days and understand all the current issues and are working on those... no, it is neither necessary nor sane to assume that.

Quote:
Prove me wrong.
When all you do is spam speculation, nobody can prove anything about it. Speculation can be neither right nor wrong - it's just noise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-23-2010, 06:08 AM
/ Signed

And when they are not screaming for a nerf, they are accusing you of hacking / exploiting / cheating / etc.
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