Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 So lower tiers aren't refits?
05-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Let's just clear this up, and I'm posting it like this to make a point and or get the knowledge spread.

If the lower tiers are not indeed refits, but it's that the ST Engineering Corps came up with a plan to use the interchangeable ship modules so that the ships could be designed in such a way as toappear like older ships of the line, then what's the problem?

That would go to say that these ships are ships developed during the turn of the 25th and 24th centuries.

In that case, what's the problem with refitting and upgrading those ships or using them with better bridge officers?

So you see a bunch of Constitutions rolling around. They aren't the Constitution from the the 23rd Century.

This is why imagination is awesome, because it allows people to rethink problems and make solution that appeal to all. Keep in mind, I didn't come up with this. Although, I would have suggested that the Excalibur was a completely new ship and any refit constitution class looking star ship was only a skin over the top of a new, modern vessel. I guess that was too much for people to handle too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Nothing is 'wrong' with it and it works to allow iconic vessels like the Constitution class to be played in the 25th century. It's just that some players are very much 'purists' and so something like that just doesn't sit right with their view of the Star Trek Universe. It's bound to happen with some people with any re-imagining, especially in an MMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Well, for starters, metal fatigue... After a certain point, you'd have to build a whole new ship just to bring it up to speed and back up to standards.

There's a reason you don't see many Grumman Goose planes flying around these days. As awesome as they were, they're so old that most of the ones left are just not safe to fly. You'd have to go for a remanufacture or a replica the very least. That's what I figure the GameStop constitutions are is: either replicas or remanufactured.

What I mean by remanufactured is like in 2006, the Mexican VW Bug factory pulled out all the old stuff for making the old fashoned Type1 bugs and made a rather sizable number of them, then closed up shop forever (for the third time). These remanufactured bugs were the old flat windshield, no dashboard, Herbie types with little to no trunk space (only the super beetles had a TARDIS like trunk) and the suspension you can use to kitbash yourself a HumBug (yes, that's an old type vw bug, believe it or not.) or a classic Dune Buggy. Can't do that with super beetles or the new beetles.

As for the Constitutions that you can get as a Tier2 cruiser, it seems to me that those are closer to the New Beetle than the old Herbie type Beetle or the Superbeetle (which is like when Kirk's Enterprise went through a refit)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-22-2010, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Sol
Nothing is 'wrong' with it and it works to allow iconic vessels like the Constitution class to be played in the 25th century. It's just that some players are very much 'purists' and so something like that just doesn't sit right with their view of the Star Trek Universe. It's bound to happen with some people with any re-imagining, especially in an MMO.
Well, maybe they should open up a development company and build their version Star Trek. In the meantime, stop trying to ruin the MMO for everyone who wants to enjoy the whole of Star Trek
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-22-2010, 03:14 PM
The gist of SCE's advancement with increased modularity of systems is that it doesn't actually matter if the hull was laid down yesterday or had been floating in mothballs for more than a century*. But the systems are modular, not completely amorphous, so internal volume and configuration is still an issue. That's why nearly-identical hull bits are swappable within each class but there are still classes with limited flexibility in both cosmetic and performance configurations.

*Though Metallurgist (appropriate to the name) does bring up the valid issue of structural fatigue, ships left floating inert in space aren't subject to much in the way of forces at all. There are also nigh-magical repair technologies available, so there's still probably less work involved in bringing an old spaceframe out of mothballs as opposed to building a new one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-22-2010, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
ships left floating inert in space aren't subject to much in the way of forces at all.
If they're left floating, in deep space, sure. Otherwise there's always radiation. If they're in constant service, you're looking at a lot of structural fatigue from battles and constant maneuvers. All the Evasive Maneuvers III and Emergency Power to Engines has got to do something to the structural integrity.

There's also vibrational stresses introduced. On DS9, I seem to recall multiple mentions of the insane amount of vibrations that the engine of the Defiant produces.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-22-2010, 03:39 PM
There is no reason what so ever players cant use a T1 ship in this game as a T5 ship.
This game has nothing to do with the Star Trek universe what so ever. Its a MMO with the Star Trek
name on it, thats it. I'm sure thousends of players want to fly lower tier ships as T5 but noo. Maybe 3 ships in some future will be made T5 ships. Take my Klingon carrier, i have only 6 weapons slots on my carrier .
Yeah i'm sure the carriers in the Star Trek universe only have 6 weapon slots And i can go on and on all night about this issues.

We must have balance Some ships are supposed to be better and stronger then others because other ships have other rolls. Just imagine how cool it would be in this game to be able to broadeside for real, with canons and torps on the sides on some of the ships, be able to send homing torps in a 360 arc after enemy ships like in the movies series etcetcetc. I'm soon gonna give up on asking about things like pvp sectors and other things, wil never gonna get those things. Maybe in two years when only the devs are left playing this game. rant over
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-22-2010, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyyy View Post

We must have balance Some ships are supposed to be better and stronger then others because other ships have other rolls.
I think it'd be neat if they could give those roles to lower ships. It would be awesome to do something specific to a ship.

Nevertheless, there shouldn't be any problems making these ships adjustable to better and more bridge officers at least... if not more weapons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallurgist
If they're left floating, in deep space, sure. Otherwise there's always radiation. If they're in constant service, you're looking at a lot of structural fatigue from battles and constant maneuvers. All the Evasive Maneuvers III and Emergency Power to Engines has got to do something to the structural integrity.

There's also vibrational stresses introduced. On DS9, I seem to recall multiple mentions of the insane amount of vibrations that the engine of the Defiant produces.
That's why I'm always speaking of ships that had been mothballed rather than ships that have been in active service for over a century
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-22-2010, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallurgist
Well, for starters, metal fatigue... After a certain point, you'd have to build a whole new ship just to bring it up to speed and back up to standards.
True. But it could be that most of the ships are from mothballed fleets. WE know from the ships designers tht the 24th centure ships were designed for 100 year operational lifetimes. The 23rd century ships may have had similar operation lifetimes. During times of peace the old ships are taken out of service and mothballed. Just because something is old, it doesn't mean you thrown it away.

The basic spaceframes of the mothballed ships are still perfectly good. Sure they aren't up to the top of the line specs of today as the ships were in their day. So you don't put them on front line duty. You refurbish them with the latest equipment, possibly even fit them with new warp cores. Doing all of the is much cheaper and faster than build a new ships from scratch.
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