Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Think about it, if Torpedo Spread tracked, it would be HYT. Unfortunatly, they created a special for which there is very limited occurences or a proper mechanic for its use.

Its not that Torpedo Spread is wrong or needs changes...what is needed is enough fidelity in game features to utilize it well.

Torpedo Spread should be used like a depth charge spread against cloaked ships whom you are unable to get a target lock on, but you are able to get a pretty good indirect fix on its approximate location. Problem in game, you cant get indirect fixes, you cant plot a point in space to fire at, you arent able to treat Spreads and HYT ability as variants of the same BO skills. So you are forced to choose one highly situtational portion of what should be all grouped together as a singular skill.

Torpedo Spread could be used for those intermittent locks on a cloaked vessel, but why use Spread when HYT directly impacts the target(which is much better).

So, outside of quickly dispatching groups of fighters, the devs created an improperly isolated special which is a duck out of water for the combast mechanics available in game. Can it collapse a Tyken's Rift?, Can it be used as a bore-sight fired projectile with a proximity fuse? Can the tactical officer even have the common sense to fire the spread on an intercept course of the target based on last recorded direction and velocity just prior to firing? If none of those is yes, then you fell for an in-game combat feature gimmick...because what else has or would a spread have ever been used for? Its certainly isnt for a tracking shot to the target...because thats what a normal/HYT salvo is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-25-2010, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Thin about it, if Torpedo Spread tracked, it would be HYT. Unfortunatly, they created a special for which there is very limited occurences or a proper mechanic for its use.

Its not that Torpedo Spread is wrong or needs changes...what is needed is enough fidelity in game features to utilize it well.

Torpedo Spread should be used like a depth charge spread against cloaked ships whom you are unable to get a target lock on, but you are able to get a pretty good indirect fix on its approximate location. Problem in game, you cant get indirect fixes, you cant plot a point in space to fire at, you arent able to treat Spreads and HYT ability as variants of the same BO skills. So you are forced to choose one highly situtational portion of what should be all grouped together as a singular skill.

Torpedo Spread could be used for those intermittent locks on a cloaked vessel, but why use Spread when HYT directly impacts the target(which is much better).

So, outside of quickly dispatching groups of fighters, the devs created an improperly isolated special which is a duck out of water for the combast mechanics available in game. Can it collapse a Tyken's Rift?, Can it be used as a bore-sight fired projectile with a proximity fuse? Can the tactical officer even have the common sense to fire the spread on an intercept course of the target based on last recorded direction and velocity just prior to firing? If none of those is yes, then you fell for an in-game combat feature gimmick...because what else has or would a spread have ever been used for? Its certainly isnt for a tracking shot to the target...because thats what a normal/HYT salvo is.
Yeah I don't want'y another HYT myself, but I can see a lot more uses for this skill if they put their minds to it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-26-2010, 03:11 AM
i find that torpedo spread is a good way to clear mine clusters in pve and pvp (when someone uses mines lol)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-26-2010, 09:02 AM
easiest solution...

Make Fire At Will do a complete 360 phaser salvo with a chance to hit a cloak vessel and reveal them briefly. This will provide the brief glimpse for Torpedo spread to be fire and potentially hit the target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-26-2010, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan
easiest solution...

Make Fire At Will do a complete 360 phaser salvo with a chance to hit a cloak vessel and reveal them briefly. This will provide the brief glimpse for Torpedo spread to be fire and potentially hit the target.
Thats a poor use of a system, to be overly used and an easily abused spam. Honestly, a 360 degree salvo would be a needle in a hay stack since not only is it 360 in the hosiztonal, but 360 in the vertical...thats almost 130,000 radials to fire in in hopes of detecting a ship. Consider all the wasted energy required to pull off such a task...one who's effectiveness rapidly deminishes exponentially as you go out.

Such a maneuver should only work in very close proximity and drain all if not most of your weapon EPS.

You know why thats not needed? Because charged particle burst(a sci skill everyone can get) already releases a much less energy intensive, omni-directional pulse to do exactly what you are asking. Sensor Scan already provides an omni-directional boost to cloak detection. And both provide this significant chance to detect cloaked vessels within the same small proximity as your phaser salvo would.

The problem is that you cant detect in game unless you have a lock...we need a means of determining the possible presence and location of cloaked ship without a lock...without seeing it. The 360 deg phaser slavo doesnt do this...its just a tactical version of the charge particle burst or sensor scan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan
easiest solution...

Make Fire At Will do a complete 360 phaser salvo with a chance to hit a cloak vessel and reveal them briefly. This will provide the brief glimpse for Torpedo spread to be fire and potentially hit the target.
ive thought about that but i figured it'd be better to make a whole new power. somehting along the lines of "sweeping shot" itd be one beam fore/aft that would do a sweep in its arc. good for finding cloaked vessels and destroying mines/torps but not really that damageing.

fire at will should do what it implys. all beams firing at the closest enemys of your BOs choice. but unfortantly its only one beam that does it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-26-2010, 08:13 PM
Currently Fire at will is a weak power thus providing additional functionality to it like this makes it useful.

The chances of hitting a cloaked vessel are slim, well no **** sherlock. However, some chance is better than none. Turning FAW into a tactical version offers an alternative means of cloak detection even if its a 1% chance of hitting a cloaked ship target.

If you have an issue with FAW being used in an indirect manner then using spread for cloak detection is equally stupid. You have even less chance of hitting with a spread due to reload and travel times.

Thus the point remains, Torpedo spread is a waste skill just like FAW. They both need work to make them worth having and thats either making them more lethal or adding additional functionality to them.

Debuffs from Torpedo spread might work.

Same might work from FAW if it comes with an innate increase to the chance of a proc on each target hit by the FAW volley.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-26-2010, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan

If you have an issue with FAW being used in an indirect manner then using spread for cloak detection is equally stupid.
As I suggested, it would have been used to deliver in-direct fire to an area in which you've determined a cloaked vessel to be, but dont have a lock. You are attempting to engage the target and deliver damage to it...not detect it or get a lock.

The ability to fire at a point in space in hopes of delivering AoE damage is the benefit Spread should have over a normal or HYT salvo which woud require locks in order to deliver directed impacts on the ship.

The use of Spread should not be for finding a cloaked ship, but as a means of hopefully enagaging one after you've done some work in order to fire at where you think it is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-26-2010, 09:43 PM
Which is utter stupidity.

You cannot engage a ship that is cloaked and your concern of it being 'abused and spammable' is just as valid with a torp spread as it is a phaser spread. Although you have admited yourself ways exist to detect cloaked vessels and those ways allow targeting locks so again, indirect fire is useless.

Why waste a spread of any kind when you can take the cloak detection skills ?

You want to have torp spread fired at where people 'think' the ship is, you can do the same with fire at will. Offer both varients and people can use energy weapons to tag the ship and then follow up with a spread to kill it.

Quote:
You are attempting to engage the target and deliver damage to it...not detect it or get a lock.
As for this stupidity, your goal IS to detect it and get a lock because that makes doing damage easier rather than via firing blind. Your harping on the fact FAW spread will drain energy... so will firing blind. Honestly, that the hell is your point ?

If you want want these weapons to be used in cloak detection fine. Go with the debuff option on these skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-27-2010, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
fire at will should do what it implies. all beams firing at the closest enemies of your BOs choice; but unfortantly its only one beam that does it.
It doesn't actually only use one beam. I used "Fire At Will" and all phasers fired at at least one target, even if it wasn't the same one.

It probably depends on how much power you got, as well as sensors skills, to fire properly.
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