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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
In my opinion, we see combat balancing being reactive and not proactive...oddly I see part of the solution being retro-active, but thats coming later in the post.

Damage/DPS and most recently Burst has been a major player in creating discontent for many in PvP. Honestly, defensive abilities are less recognized, but I think they were partially to blame too.

I think the solution to PvP balance is reeling things back. Very high, if not excessive, tanking brought with it the push for great DPS, DPS brought with it the move to Burst. In Tribble, it appears the dev have tried to deminish Burst, but there seems to be some concern that it was of very limited success(with a reduction of only about 10% from current Burst amounts)...with the biggest loser likly being sustained DPS since once the buffs run out, all the console nerfs and such really impact your sustained damage output. It appears they are also reducing tanks(buffs, resists, etc), which many seem to despise, but I think is going in the right direction...but its not enough. They still have to deal with the root of the problem.

Assuming the Burst was properly decreased, what was the purpose for the tanks in the first place? I think this is the root cause that is being ignored, and its in large part why each attempt at balance is only superficial and short lived as the player base soon runs an "end around" to utilize other items in "excess" in response...the root proble is why there is the potential for this "excess" anything in game in the first place.

The reason for tanks is simple, DPS...DPS is caused by two fundemental flaws, plus a few other smaller ommissions, in the combat mechanics. We cant get away from these two major items if we try to balance PvP.

1) Weapon cool downs are too short:
We are allowed to fire off too many discharges from any given weapon in a given period of time. Basically, we are allowed to pull the trigger and fire too quickly...this pours on the weapon damage, with stock/standard, unmodified EPS flow rates to more or less make it viable. We need longer cool downs and EPS flow rates that are paced for these slower firing rates. This would decrease the frequeny of impacts and allow us to finally utilize maneuvering more between HP/damage loses. The speed of the weapon fires has overshadowed the significance of maneuvering as a tactic.

2) Captain Skills and BO skills contribute much too much of an increase in output over stock specs. Deminish the amount of boost we can give to our systems, once again, creating more of a pace for fights. Everyone is maxed out on weapons because the skill point constraints never made it a comprimise. Being readily able to increase stock weapon output before buffing or consoles by 4-5x through just skills alone was excessive.

With these major changes, we can then look at making what we do have more substantial and less of a flash in the pan. With less DPS and Burst, we can look at deminishing resist buffs/debuffs and BO special magnitude(reducing the tank through reduction of rate and magnitude of regen and repair)...and instead give us longer lasting specials of less magnitude and impact(granted this also means longer cool downs). So we dont have 50% reductions in incoming energy weapon damage for 15 secs. We get 10-15% in energy weapon damage over 1 min, with 2-3 min cool downs, etc, etc.

We can look into less casting of short-term magic tricks and look into more sustained states of being. RSP becomes less destabilizing if it stays on a tad bit longer than it does now, but you arent missing out on as much damage delivery because the rate of fire in game was lower(instead missing 6 shots in 15 secs, maybe you miss out on 4 shots in 20 secs), the level of RSP shield regeration would be less and the user's Hazard Emittors or Eng Team heals to hull took longer to regen because it no longer threw it all in at once...but instead, slowly feed it in over a period of time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-25-2010, 07:50 PM
Yea combat is like flying a flight sim, and less like a naval battle..........


Really what it comes down to is:

1)Finding the right ablity Combo

2)The quality of your weapons and systems

3)Actual game skill

In that Order, but is should be in reverse order
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-25-2010, 09:19 PM
A player should design their ship, skills, weapons and the alike in a manner than accentuates their play style. However what we see now is that it accentuates only the speed at which the enemy can die without the chance to fight back. I fully agree with Pegasi.

I purchased Champion's Online at release and was very, very sad with it. Now, after months of updating and working with player's responses Champion's Online has improved a lot. I do not doubt Cryptic will follow through in a similar method here. Patience and constructive response will be the key to this games success.

Edit: Also this game is comparable to Fighter Combat instead of Battleship Combat at the moment, which is not right. PvE and Champion's Online will distract me from the imbalances for now. :3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-25-2010, 11:17 PM
Well maybe a dev can correct me if im wrong but it would be safe to assume that the reason that combat is not more dynamic is so new players will not be confronted with a high learning curve and a game that is hard to learn....


Also when a game gets more dynamic, then you have to really get on the game theory math which is used for play balance....I know from playing other RTS games a slight tweek to a weapon or system can have unintended results all over the place (ie, one balance issue is corrected, now you have 3 new imbalance issues)

But I think as a MMO, a game that people want to invest alot of time on; a learning curve should not be an issue at end game mechanics. The only reason I would think it shouldnt be is because of resources, I realize Cryptic is working on Content, new races, bug killing right now.....And I do agree that Klingons need more PvE material and getting Romulans and other new races would be great too.......I think it will a long time before PvP gets really good, with all things considered
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-25-2010, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verikon
A player should design their ship, skills, weapons and the alike in a manner than accentuates their play style. However what we see now is that it accentuates only the speed at which the enemy can die without the chance to fight back. I fully agree with Pegasi.

I purchased Champion's Online at release and was very, very sad with it. Now, after months of updating and working with player's responses Champion's Online has improved a lot. I do not doubt Cryptic will follow through in a similar method here. Patience and constructive response will be the key to this games success.

Edit: Also this game is comparable to Fighter Combat instead of Battleship Combat at the moment, which is not right. PvE and Champion's Online will distract me from the imbalances for now. :3
I got the Champions as a pre-order and participated in the open beta. The game was much more fun in open beta then it was after they swung the nerf-bat around and made all my characters impossible to play. One of their selling points were that you were able to create any kind of superhero to play with. Instead now it is all cookie cutting power templates to be able to maximize the powers so you will be able to play the game and compete with the rest.

I fear Cryptic is repeating themselves and making the same mistake again with swinging the nerf-bat too much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-27-2010, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
1) Weapon cool downs are too short:
We are allowed to fire off too many discharges from any given weapon in a given period of time. Basically, we are allowed to pull the trigger and fire too quickly...this pours on the weapon damage, with stock/standard, unmodified EPS flow rates to more or less make it viable. We need longer cool downs and EPS flow rates that are paced for these slower firing rates. This would decrease the frequeny of impacts and allow us to finally utilize maneuvering more between HP/damage loses. The speed of the weapon fires has overshadowed the significance of maneuvering as a tactic.
I agree, but fear that the new CD's would be overdone and combat would end up being to slow. What are the current CD's on weapons by type?
The trick is finding a pace that doesn't infinge upon the inherent playstyles of each type of vessels availible in STO. Escorts are meant to be fast firing and maneveurable while Cruisers are also meant to be able to bring alot of beam arrays to bear on an opponent.


Quote:
2) Captain Skills and BO skills contribute much too much of an increase in output over stock specs. Deminish the amount of boost we can give to our systems, once again, creating more of a pace for fights. Everyone is maxed out on weapons because the skill point constraints never made it a comprimise. Being readily able to increase stock weapon output before buffing or consoles by 4-5x through just skills alone was excessive.
I agree. I love the ability to use BO/Captain skills to buff or debuff, but they may be too powerful at thier current settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simale
I got the Champions as a pre-order and participated in the open beta. The game was much more fun in open beta then it was after they swung the nerf-bat around and made all my characters impossible to play. One of their selling points were that you were able to create any kind of superhero to play with. Instead now it is all cookie cutting power templates to be able to maximize the powers so you will be able to play the game and compete with the rest.

I fear Cryptic is repeating themselves and making the same mistake again with swinging the nerf-bat too much.
This is my fear as well, I I too was in CB for CO and it was a fun game until the release day nerfing changed gameplay into a tediuos and unfun endevour. My might toon just wasn't fun anymore and my blaster wasn't iether.
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