Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-29-2010, 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
Not really... Technically EVERYTHING this game should have had at launch is being added in a patch later, so it sort of still applies... Sort of...
Yes but saying that other games with a DP isn't driving away subscribers because they had it from the start. They didn't have to adjust to anything.
Isn't that the moot point?



Less outrage over a DP because its always been there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-29-2010, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chat
Yes but saying that other games with a DP isn't driving away subscribers because they had it from the start. They didn't have to adjust to anything.
Isn't that the moot point?

Less outrage over a DP because its always been there.
Like I said... it SORT OF still applies. I won't say that the point is moot. It's very much a grey area. No MMO has been launched missing so many basic elements. Pretty much anything that is added to STO is going to require adjustment.

I just feel that for things like a DP, the rule needs to apply to everyone. The trick is finding a system that is fair and doesn't undermine a game's fun factor. It's just my opinion. But I am an old-school gamer who remembers back when games didn't have a save and reload feature, and where "Game Over" carried weight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-29-2010, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
Like I said... it SORT OF still applies. I won't say that the point is moot. It's very much a grey area. No MMO has been launched missing so many basic elements. Pretty much anything that is added to STO is going to require adjustment.

I just feel that for things like a DP, the rule needs to apply to everyone. The trick is finding a system that is fair and doesn't undermine a game's fun factor. It's just my opinion. But I am an old-school gamer who remembers back when games didn't have a save and reload feature, and where "Game Over" carried weight.
Gray areas are awesome.
And umm... SWG was apparently missing everything until NGE. *runs like hell*

Yeah. Still see a DP as a reason to stay alive above all else.
Don't even mention Game Over... Dating a retro gamer here. >_>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-29-2010, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chat
Gray areas are awesome.
And umm... SWG was apparently missing everything until NGE. *runs like hell*
Actually, the NGE was the first MMO patch I have ever seen that actually removed more than it added and broke more than it fixed... at the same time. I will never understand how SOE could believe that going from 32 professions down to 9 was an improvement.

Quote:
Yeah. Still see a DP as a reason to stay alive above all else.
That's what it's supposed to do. That and make you feel like you actually DID something if you manage to avoid defeat... The thrill of victory cannot be had without the threat of defeat.

Quote:
Don't even mention Game Over... Dating a retro gamer here. >_>
If I had the means, I'd form my own dev team, create games that play very much like the games on the NES/SNES, but make use of 32-bit color depth, .WAV sound effects and MP3/OGG music... I'd charge a flat monthly fee of $5 per month and get rich off all the gamers the corporate development industry has left in the dust of "progress"

Games used to be fun and challenging, even though their graphics weren't all that great. Now games have become little more than demos for this or that game engine and how well it can render 3D art.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-30-2010, 08:37 AM
I like the way it is set up at the moment.

There are some tweaks I might have done and the following is one of them.
I would have made combat damage part of the equation.
If we get hit with our shields down, then we would have a chance of taking system/body damage during combat and not just upon death.

So in other words, we would have a chance of getting an injury during the fight itself and a chance upon death for one of the harsher injuries.

During combat you could see all ranges of the injuries depending upon how many times you got hit with your shields down (applies to both ground and space).
Upon death you would get hit with a major/crit no exception here (In other words it would be major/crit or none at all upon death. No chance of getting anything less than major/crit if the dice rolled you a death injury.)

It would feel more realistic if you always had a chance of an injury no matter what for the higher diff settings.

Perhaps this change even:
The lower your ship's hull percentage is, the less power you have going to each system.
For example: if you are sitting at 15 percent hull, you should not even be able to move, let alone fire at something till you repair back up to say at least 60 percent.

I like the way they did it, but if I was going for a realistic approach, some of what I said in the above would be part of the tweaks I would have done.
Also, yes I would still keep it optional..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-30-2010, 08:54 AM
I didn't want it or ask for it but apparently 'everyone' wanted it so there it is. The "no penalty on Normal" concession was hard fought for and that's one thing at least. However, Minor Injuries *do not* go away after 30 minutes. The indicator might vanish but the penalty and damage is still there, fix this crap already!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-30-2010, 07:56 PM
I was against the DP before they added this system but now I like it. It is one of the few things they got that works.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-30-2010, 08:28 PM
CaptainQuirk,


I say all of the following in the good spirit of conversation. Please do not think it is an attack, it is only a critique.

I am not one to say "we can agree to disagree" because that has and always be a line of BS. Instead, I will just disagree with you on every point you have made. You have a right to your own opinion but that opinion is very narrowly constructed.

You are of the "EQ school" of thought and design. That is the same school the devs for WoW subscribe to. That is not to say that design paradigm has not worked in the past, obviously it has. The problem people of that EQ school have is wrapping their heads around alternatives. STO is one of the first serious attempts to work outside the DikuMUD/EQ format.

Those people who have the war cry of "less pew pew, more IQ", they are not of the EQ school. They are of the UO/SWG school, whether they realize it or not. STO is skirting a fine line between the two schools but is trying to lean more towards the UO/SWG side.

The thing you said that really tipped me off was that bit about "putting things in that should have been here already" you pushed out there. That is not true in any way. To me and many others it is very obvious why STO was launched in the state it was. Cryptic wanted to test the waters while also retaining their own design styling. STO, from the start, has been an experiment in adaptive game development and design. In a very lose way STO is almost an ultimate sandbox game. We, the players, have about a 30% say in what is put in STO. Cryptic adapts what we ask for to their design vision.

STO, though still in need of work, Is shaping up to be something different that the typical MMORPG. The injury system and the fact that it is optional, is one of the unique features that has come of this type of dev cycle.

The people you claim are complaining about shallow content being the people who play on normal have made that decision for them selves. It really is their own mess in many ways. On this point in particular I do call shenanigans. You need to back that statement up with absolute proof or it is simply conjecture and unfounded declaration.

The injury system, as it stands now, is not a stroke of genius but it is certainly a step in that direction. Optional DP is a bold and much needed move for the MMORPG development community and the genre as a whole. It will lead to other innovations in regard to DPs. At this point I will be hard pressed to play a game that has anything but an optional DP even though I would not opt out of it. There is a nice smooth flavor to it that is very noticeable in the STO community I rather enjoy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-31-2010, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayenn
CaptainQuirk,


I say all of the following in the good spirit of conversation. Please do not think it is an attack, it is only a critique.

I am not one to say "we can agree to disagree" because that has and always be a line of BS. Instead, I will just disagree with you on every point you have made. You have a right to your own opinion but that opinion is very narrowly constructed.

You are of the "EQ school" of thought and design. That is the same school the devs for WoW subscribe to. That is not to say that design paradigm has not worked in the past, obviously it has. The problem people of that EQ school have is wrapping their heads around alternatives. STO is one of the first serious attempts to work outside the DikuMUD/EQ format.

Those people who have the war cry of "less pew pew, more IQ", they are not of the EQ school. They are of the UO/SWG school, whether they realize it or not. STO is skirting a fine line between the two schools but is trying to lean more towards the UO/SWG side.

The thing you said that really tipped me off was that bit about "putting things in that should have been here already" you pushed out there. That is not true in any way. To me and many others it is very obvious why STO was launched in the state it was. Cryptic wanted to test the waters while also retaining their own design styling. STO, from the start, has been an experiment in adaptive game development and design. In a very lose way STO is almost an ultimate sandbox game. We, the players, have about a 30% say in what is put in STO. Cryptic adapts what we ask for to their design vision.

STO, though still in need of work, Is shaping up to be something different that the typical MMORPG. The injury system and the fact that it is optional, is one of the unique features that has come of this type of dev cycle.

The people you claim are complaining about shallow content being the people who play on normal have made that decision for them selves. It really is their own mess in many ways. On this point in particular I do call shenanigans. You need to back that statement up with absolute proof or it is simply conjecture and unfounded declaration.

The injury system, as it stands now, is not a stroke of genius but it is certainly a step in that direction. Optional DP is a bold and much needed move for the MMORPG development community and the genre as a whole. It will lead to other innovations in regard to DPs. At this point I will be hard pressed to play a game that has anything but an optional DP even though I would not opt out of it. There is a nice smooth flavor to it that is very noticeable in the STO community I rather enjoy.
Maybe the stuff stated above lost pretty much in translation ( me beeing a none english spoken person or just beeing plain stupid ( bet the writer would applaud last ) ) but i cannot say anything of it made me change my mind about the ridicoulous injury system implemented.

I am a casual player that sometimes find it fun to have bit more challenge than i usually get by playing STO.
So i was trilled when they implemented advanced and Elite. Played it a lot a t first but got fed up by a - the loot is just tiny better if in fact it is ( aka more time consuming with no xtra reward besides " yeah i beat Elite " ), b - the healing system just annoyes me ( that is ofc constantly fixing my Bops that ends up dead much more frequent than me ), and the fact that timer system for self heal ofc doesnt work, c - the difference beetween the races u meet at missions ( some u walze over some u nearly cannot beat ) last is ofc annoying also on normal.

So what happened ? I ofc just quit doing advanced and elite and back to zero.

For DP in other games u need to get ur tombstone or u need to let timer run out or even get healed for a small amount of cash visting a " healer " located just beside ur death spawn spot.. And spooky enuff the timer usually works in other games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-31-2010, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AramisThorne
Okay I understand that they are trying to provide more aspects to the game. I totally agree with ship damages, but in star trek the only injuries that you see are major ones caused by unknown aliens and viruses. So it doesn't make any sense that our characters can get broken bones or some thing similar and the only way to heal them is through regenerators or any type of special item. It should be like the show where they go to the doctor and the doctor treats them in one scene.

Does any one have a suggestion as to whether this injury feature should be taken out and if so what should replace it.


For replacement I think there should be a morale system for every character. The characters would fight better or preform better with high morale worse with low and normal with medium morale.

On how to keep morale up they should make use of the doors on the bridge. You should be able to go to the turbolift and select to go to either 10 forward for drinks and mini games like 3d chess, or go to the holodecks for holodeck missions. When you get to either place just like beaming down you can "call for reinforcements" but in this case it would be "call for companions" and select which of your officers you would like to join you to boost their morale.
Now these are just the basics but this can be taken much farther. If you want to leave in the injuries, add a turbolift function to sick bay where you can see the officer that you assigned to chief medical officer. That officer then can heal any ailments. Also this gives opportunity that when you are in a fleet in sector space you can invite other captains to view your bridge (cryptic this gives us reason to spend money on our bridge packs) and have drinks in 10 forward and go on holodeck missions together.

Theres six other things that i can add to this that would make the game much longer and much more interesting but that would take a while and I wanna play the game so ttyl
Hell NO!

This Injury system is the best feature in a while they added to this game, U dont want Injuries, play on NORMAL.

I dont play in any other difficulty except advanced or Elite.
I LOVE the Challange, any why not have some consequences for dying ? Its awesome.
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