Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-30-2010, 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_IndigoFyre
It is the most amazing thing evar!
I have been using it internally for the past couple of months. You use your IM program to chat with people on your friends list. Its amazing how time flies when I can chop it up with my guildmates in CO and STO while answering tickets.
It startles me a bit that this is such a new thing for you.

My understanding is that ******** GMs generally communicate through a text only IM client and only create/access an ingame avatar if absolutely necessary. They've been doing this for years. I believe you have some former WoW GMs/developers at Cryptic who could confirm or refute this.

One thing that I think is somewhat sad about MMO development is that the process is so all-consuming that veterans often have LESS chance to interact with certain aspects. I mean, obviously, you have a lot of people with ties to Blizzard and Gazillion and other developers but it seems to me that you probably also have at least some developers who have only ever been "behind the wheel" on Cryptic's projects and that the same is true with every development house and so the result is that there may be less cross pollination of ideas than you'd have in a console market where development is more limited run and people have more chance to breathe and take in other complete projects.

Maybe I'm talking out of my posterior here but I think, for example, that the dedicated Cryptic folks like Craig and Jack, who date back to City of Heroes, were blindsided by some of the community desires concerns and issues on CO and STO because they were using CoH as their frame of reference. Their knowledge of other MMOs since CoH was perhaps conceptual or as a casual player but the market and communities have changed so drastically that CoH and the MMO market circa 2005 was very much their frame of reference.

As a result, the design choices at Cryptic have been playing a game of catch-up and the open communication you have established exists in part because you are a veteran developer who was on the first wave of the modern MMO... Whereas a younger developer might start from a very different place and see the communication as superfluous since their entire staff is new to MMOs.

I think Cryptic's developers' tendency, following their own instincts, is to create something that is very much like and very much in response to City of Heroes/Villains. Whereas a company like BioWare's instinct is to create one of their RPG games and graft on networking/MMO elements.

And unlike the days of MUDs, MUSHes and MOOs, every MMO has its own code, its own engine, its own setup... Which leads to isolation in development. You have people who have worked behind the scenes on different MMOs. You have some insightful awareness of how they work and what they look like in execution.

But unlike the era of text based online RPGs where all games shared a codebase, the divergent engines mean that every MMO dev is striving towards similar experiences/controls/options for the end user but the ways you get there are different.

I mean, you could assign Turbine, BioWare and Cryptic to clone ******** perfectly with the provision that none of them can peak at WoW's source code and they'd all generate games which look and seem to play mostly the same but the behind the scenes nuts and bolts would be different and someone who was a GM at one company might find, for instance, that each company's GM interface was radically different.

That just plain would not have happened as much in the era of MUDs when everybody was using one of ten or fifteen codebases that were open source or at least widely licensed and using those codebases on hundreds of games. There were few engineers and developers and more administrators, community managers and designers. Not to say that there weren't diverse ways of handling space or economies or combat systems but the core tools were pretty universal.

Sorry for rambling. I'm a nerd for this kind of stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-30-2010, 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
It startles me a bit that this is such a new thing for you.

My understanding is that ******** GMs generally communicate through a text only IM client and only create/access an ingame avatar if absolutely necessary. They've been doing this for years. I believe you have some former WoW GMs/developers at Cryptic who could confirm or refute this.

One thing that I think is somewhat sad about MMO development is that the process is so all-consuming that veterans often have LESS chance to interact with certain aspects. I mean, obviously, you have a lot of people with ties to Blizzard and Gazillion and other developers but it seems to me that you probably also have at least some developers who have only ever been "behind the wheel" on Cryptic's projects and that the same is true with every development house and so the result is that there may be less cross pollination of ideas than you'd have in a console market where development is more limited run and people have more chance to breathe and take in other complete projects.

Maybe I'm talking out of my posterior here but I think, for example, that the dedicated Cryptic folks like Craig and Jack, who date back to City of Heroes, were blindsided by some of the community desires concerns and issues on CO and STO because they were using CoH as their frame of reference. Their knowledge of other MMOs since CoH was perhaps conceptual or as a casual player but the market and communities have changed so drastically that CoH and the MMO market circa 2005 was very much their frame of reference.

As a result, the design choices at Cryptic have been playing a game of catch-up and the open communication you have established exists in part because you are a veteran developer who was on the first wave of the modern MMO... Whereas a younger developer might start from a very different place and see the communication as superfluous since their entire staff is new to MMOs.

I think Cryptic's developers' tendency, following their own instincts, is to create something that is very much like and very much in response to City of Heroes/Villains. Whereas a company like BioWare's instinct is to create one of their RPG games and graft on networking/MMO elements.

And unlike the days of MUDs, MUSHes and MOOs, every MMO has its own code, its own engine, its own setup... Which leads to isolation in development. You have people who have worked behind the scenes on different MMOs. You have some insightful awareness of how they work and what they look like in execution.

But unlike the era of text based online RPGs where all games shared a codebase, the divergent engines mean that every MMO dev is striving towards similar experiences/controls/options for the end user but the ways you get there are different.

I mean, you could assign Turbine, BioWare and Cryptic to clone ******** perfectly with the provision that none of them can peak at WoW's source code and they'd all generate games which look and seem to play mostly the same but the behind the scenes nuts and bolts would be different and someone who was a GM at one company might find, for instance, that each company's GM interface was radically different.

That just plain would not have happened as much in the era of MUDs when everybody was using one of ten or fifteen codebases that were open source or at least widely licensed and using those codebases on hundreds of games. There were few engineers and developers and more administrators, community managers and designers. Not to say that there weren't diverse ways of handling space or economies or combat systems but the core tools were pretty universal.

Sorry for rambling. I'm a nerd for this kind of stuff.

ahhh the days when MMO meant the likes of ROTS .. a tolkien based mudd run off an old 286 . " nostaligic sigh "

while the sharing of Mudd code allowed for greater thought and effort being put into content ( i remember trying a startrek Mudd and having a full page description of the starting room ) they did end up feeling samey ... where as modern MMO`s with their ironclad lock on their base code forces newer games to start from almost scratch and hopefully inovate along the way . unfortunitly occasionally the story aspect does sometimes suffer in these cases

just sayin
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-30-2010, 03:36 AM
:p Something else broken in STO..... surely not
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-30-2010, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_IndigoFyre
It is the most amazing thing evar!
I have been using it internally for the past couple of months. You use your IM program to chat with people on your friends list. Its amazing how time flies when I can chop it up with my guildmates in CO and STO while answering tickets.
why not chat using ventrillo or team speak? seems the new system you talking about sounds complicated?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-30-2010, 04:16 AM
Quote:
My understanding is that ******** GMs generally communicate through a text only IM client and only create/access an ingame avatar if absolutely necessary. They've been doing this for years. I believe you have some former WoW GMs/developers at Cryptic who could confirm or refute this.
While this may or may not be true (I have never been a GM for WoW so I do not know what their system is like) as far as I know WoW does not let players chat with their friends in game while out of game via an IM interface. In fact I don't know any MMOs that do have that kind of tool available to players (they might be out there but I am not aware of them). Which is why its so exciting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-30-2010, 04:53 AM
AORC has been doing it for years
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-30-2010, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_IndigoFyre
While this may or may not be true (I have never been a GM for WoW so I do not know what their system is like) as far as I know WoW does not let players chat with their friends in game while out of game via an IM interface. In fact I don't know any MMOs that do have that kind of tool available to players (they might be out there but I am not aware of them). Which is why its so exciting.
all sony games do <3 stationlauncher
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-30-2010, 06:09 AM
sounds like it is ingame voice chat that your talking about. if it is the games that have it complain that too many people talking at once, like on the xbox 360 live games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-30-2010, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darias
so we are playing an MMO with no social interaction " snickers "

do emotes work maybe we can emote a conversation in ESD
no, you have to buy those from the c-store
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-30-2010, 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_quack
why not chat using ventrillo or team speak? seems the new system you talking about sounds complicated?
Heh it's hardly complicated (just use XMPP compliant client) and last time I checked vent nor TS actually has access to our friends list in game :p (nor all the chat rooms available)
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