Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 The Desert known as Ground PvP
06-03-2010, 06:18 PM
With the addition of Accolades, you would think there would be more people playing ground PvP, but apparently it's as dry as a desert.

Even more fun, being trapped in the zone with the new lock out, until someone happens to drop in.



Anyhow, anyone got suggestions what Cryptic needs to do, so more play it? Better rewards?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-03-2010, 06:55 PM
They need to fix the ridiculous knockback and hold spam. Immunity from knockbacks/holds after getting hit by one for a short time for a start. Its not fun getting pushed and held across the map.

The other issue with ground PVP is how quickly you die from focus fire. There isn't a whole lot you can do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you at the same time. Maybe a damage resistance on shields that absorbs more from #2 attacks would help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-03-2010, 07:26 PM
Ever since Cryptic disabled the zone out button, and put a 4 minute timer that closed all possibilities for new people to join the match after the 4 minutes have passed, activity in ground PVP plummeted.

The logic behind those changes are so flawed, too. What do we gain from having this 4 minute time limit? Nobody wants to be locked in a 2 vs 5 match with no chances for anyone new to join to fill up the unbalanced side. It's absurd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
The other issue with ground PVP is how quickly you die from focus fire. There isn't a whole lot you can do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you at the same time. Maybe a damage resistance on shields that absorbs more from #2 attacks would help.
There isn't a whole lot you should be able to do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you in the first place.. after all your not in a space ship there and nothing stops your team from doing the exact same. Afterall its a teamplay game, assisting others on kills is exactly the way how it should be.

Instead of turning a 5vs5 team game into a 5x 1vs1 sort of game they should rather add an duel command additionally outside of team pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-03-2010, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikiy
There isn't a whole lot you should be able to do when 3-4 people decide to snipe you in the first place.. after all your not in a space ship there and nothing stops your team from doing the exact same. Afterall its a teamplay game, assisting others on kills is exactly the way how it should be.

Instead of turning a 5vs5 team game into a 5x 1vs1 sort of game they should rather add an duel command additionally outside of team pvp.
Its not fun at all to be insta killed, nor is it fun to insta kill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-03-2010, 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Its not fun at all to be insta killed, nor is it fun to insta kill.

Its a TEAM game. Its not fun for 3-4 players to hit the one invincible guy that thinks he isn't supposed to die either.

It may be ok if you can tank 3-4 npc's hitting you.. it may even be ok if you survive if a couple hundred npc's hit you in some single player game where your the big invincible hero for some reason... but in player versus player games your supposed to be really challenged in a 1 on 1 fight already, taking on a 1 vs X fight against players is just unrealistic and has always a predictable outcome (if the players involved know what they are doing).



The fun in team pvp comes from successful team play, which is to be countered by team play and not by buffing individuals survival skills against multiple enemies. Calling targets, assisting each other, covering each other, calling for heals is all part of how team play works.

I play several hours of ground pvp every day these days (with fleet groups and solo/pugs [on both sides even]) and beeing focus fired upon imo isn't really a problem. If im with my friends / fleet groups we take care of each other, be it by healing or locking enemies down before they can deal dmg. Going solo in a game and/or playing with a pug on the other hand is a different story.. sometimes i get lucky and have group mates that stick around and help and sometimes i don't and thus get cornered by multiple and die quick, but thats only natural in a team game.

The real issue with ground pvp in sto is rather that the teams are very rarely even (a queue issue to start with), and sometimes when you think groups are even (by numbers) its still not even because you may have lots of inexperiences players vs a group of experienced ones that are focused on ground, or even worse you may have some that either want to die (to finish their quests quick) or don't even respawn anymore and thus remove any chance of their team to win (assuming there was a chance).

Regardless on what side you play with, be it the winning & team playing team or the bad team - games like that are most of the time very boring for both sides and everyone usually just wants to get it out of it asap. Sadly the amount of challenging / even numbered / fun to play games on ground are a lot more rare then in space pvp and thats in my opinion a major factor that drives players away from it.

The last change to the queue system to only allow reinforcements to teams within the first 4 minutes made the situation even worse and increased the amount of unbalanced games btw.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-03-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm glad that the ground PvP dailies are working again and hope to see Azurian and Foxrocks in the queues.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-04-2010, 12:03 AM
I have played in a lot of *really fun* ground PvP matches, although what constitutes fun for me may not be fun for everyone else. Fun matches involve long drawn out battles where the sides seem very even and the players are either gaining or losing ground through the hallways at a very slow pace. Groups can pin each other down behind obstacles and doorways, and they have time to try out different strategies to break one another's lines. The flow moves slowly enough that it can stop, shift direction and then reverse again. In the process, people are slowly picked off through carelessness or lucky chance, and somewhere in the background the killscore tally is increasing while everyone focuses on the firefight of their life.

To me, that's a lot of fun. And I've been fortunate enough to play in enough ground PvP matches to know that those kinds of battles do happen.

What's absolutely not fun is one or two people being repeatedly chased through the halls and gunned down every 30 seconds by a roving band of enemy players. And then these players say "good game!" afterwords. Was it really? Is that what makes up a good game to some people? I guess we all have different tastes.

The ground PvP maps need a lot of help. For the most part they're just a bunch of connecting corridors that encourage players to endlessly lap in a pack together and mow down whatever pops up in their path. There is no specific point to defend or assault, no requirement to force teams to split up into more manageable encounters. No safe place to fall back to and regroup. And when you combine all of that with the fact that you respawn randomly somewhere on the map, and often alone, it's no wonder a lot of these matches play out like they do: a pack of 5 players running from one respawn point to the next, annihilating any unprepared individual who pops up along their route. This is only made worse by the fact that we all show up on radar, even when we're out of sight.

I've been on both ends of that and, to me, neither side of it is any fun. I wish these maps were designed with some actual tactical PvP play in mind. I really appreciate it when the matches happen to go in that direction, but often they just boil down to lapping the map repeatedly in a pack and shooting something dead before it causes you to break your stride.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-04-2010, 12:46 AM
Just thinking it needs to be blended a bit more in some fashion. perhaps if your space traits also affected ground traits and it wasn't like a dividing line for which way you want to play your character. If I've made a character with 4 space traits. I'm not likely going to ground pvp with him.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-04-2010, 01:03 AM
Get rid of the ridiculous amount of holds, or increase the immunity granted after. Right now, you are hold for 6s, and the immunity lasts 8s...so you will have it 2s

Also, anoying bunnyhoppers, sniper lock, and lunge rubber banding have to be fixed.
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