Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
No doubt. However, consider this: FC was approximately a 2 hour movie. The amount of time that was pure combat was probably less than 30 mins. So even using your example, that would mean that combat should only be about 1/4 of the total gameplay.
No, no it wasn't.

Even by your logic, we should have android/borg sex scenes and scan five things in the Neutral Zone for the first 10 minutes (or 1/12 of the experience).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-05-2010, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
No, no it wasn't.

Even by your logic, we should have android/borg sex scenes and scan five things in the Neutral Zone for the first 10 minutes (or 1/12 of the experience).
First, that isnt "my" logic at all; I didnt bring up FC or suggest it was all combat. That said, comparing combat vs non combat time has nothing to do with the specific non-combat things that are going on in one specific movie, anymore than the specific combat things that were going on in that same movie. That would be like saying all combat should be against the Borg, since that was the only enemy in FC.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-05-2010, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
First, that isnt "my" logic at all; I didnt bring up FC or suggest it was all combat. That said, comparing combat vs non combat time has nothing to do with the specific non-combat things that are going on in one specific movie, anymore than the specific combat things that were going on in that same movie. That would be like saying all combat should be against the Borg, since that was the only enemy in FC.
In your argument you posited that screen representation in some other person's example should correlate to portions of actual game time. That was your argument in the post I quoted.

So, yes, by that logic, we should see androids getting laid and scan "5 things" in the neutral zone (the latter we do have). :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-05-2010, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clobbertime View Post
No, they missed the mark. Star Trek is mostly about a single ship exploring the universe. I think only a single player game could give the proper Trek feel of emulating that. They had to make too many concessions to turn it into an MMO to be able to offer a truer Trek experience. Has a lot of the looks and sounds, but just doesn't have the feel. Still, it's not a bad game, needs a lot of work to flesh it out, though.
That's funny. I distinctly remember a Star Trek series about them being on a non-Federation Space Station and the Universe coming to them? But what do I know? It could be I'm getting old and senile.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-05-2010, 11:29 AM
There is also a huge difference between a video game and a movie.

Video games are user-controlled, which means it pretty much needs to be action-oriented.

There are a few video games out there that aren't centered on combat. Most of them are from Nintendo or Maxis. Most of them don't overlap fanbases with Trek.

This is not a new observation.

Starfleet Academy: Mostly combat
Starfleet Command: Combat
Armada: Combat
Bridge Commander: Combat
Legacy: Combat

With perhaps the exception being Star Trek 25th Anniversary, STO easily has the most non-combat missions and content of any Trek game we've had. And they've already confirmed they're working on a good deal more of it (Diplomacy/Exploration)


We have Trek ships, Trek races, Trek places, Trek Uniforms, Trek equipment, and a good majority of the storyline missions are either continuations or tributes to classic trek episodes and lore elements.

At this point, its a matter of whether a player can manage their own expectations of what is reasonably possible in an online star trek game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
In your argument you posited that screen representation in some other person's example should correlate to portions of actual game time. That was your argument in the post I quoted.
If replying to someone else's argument somehow makes it your argument, then that would mean it it is now YOUR argument as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
So, yes, by that logic, we should see androids getting laid and scan "5 things" in the neutral zone (the latter we do have). :p
And as I said in my last post, if you want to use that reasoning, it would also mean the only enemy we could fight would be the Borg, since they were the only enemy in FC.

But silly arguments aside, lets recap the situation you and are I actually discussing. The person earlier made the argument that since FC was the most popular TNG movie, and FC was mainly combat, that it stands to reason that STO follow that same example. My reply to his argument was that FC was NOT mainly combat; in fact there was more non-combat than combat. So using HIS logic(that what was shown in FC should be represented in game), that would mean there would be more non-combat missions than combat missions. However, the idea of what was shown in FC being represented in game was his idea; not mine. I simply pointed out that his reasoning actually proved the opposite of what he thought it did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-05-2010, 11:33 AM
Honestly I think the game fails more as a game than it does as a representation of Star Trek. You could insert any IP into this system, and I think there would still be huge shortcomings. I think what carries this title slightly higher than Champions IS the Star Trek element. Otherwise it would probably be even less popular.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-05-2010, 11:35 AM
The whole subject of the OP's post was, does STO feel like it is taking place in a Star Trek Universe, or just another Star Trek game. And what specific elements are missing from making it feel like its set in a Star Trek Universe.

Bottom line is, story telling, character development has more screen time then space battles and phaser fights in both movies and TV shows.

Action should be climatical, that was what Star Trek conveyed in all of the franchises. A cumilnation of events where diplomacy, reason and inventiveness had failed and the only recourse was shields up and fire all weapons. (and as a side note, usually didn't work anyways.)

If you spend most of your screen time on exciting, cool graphics and explosions these events end up crossing the line of gratuitous violence.

As for FC being the best TNG Movie, of course! With the most recognized antagonists of the Star Trek Universe, it would be popular. Nothing better then Space Zombies..."Mmmmm brains....oh wait...You will be assimilated..."

Plus who can forget Picard, "The line must be drawn HEEEEEYYAARRRRHH"

*side note*
( Star Trek fans, would understand the whole Data/Borg Queen thing from FC was about the Holy Grail for Data becoming human, what she was offering, and the cost he would incurr for achieving his ultimate goal.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodar-Duggs
The whole subject of the OP's post was, does STO feel like it is taking place in a Star Trek Universe, or just another Star Trek game. And what specific elements are missing from making it feel like its set in a Star Trek Universe.

Bottom line is, story telling, character development has more screen time then space battles and phaser fights in both movies and TV shows.

Action should be climatical, that was what Star Trek conveyed in all of the franchises. A cumilnation of events where diplomacy, reason and inventiveness had failed and the only recourse was shields up and fire all weapons. (and as a side note, usually didn't work anyways.)

If you spend most of your screen time on exciting, cool graphics and explosions these events end up crossing the line of gratuitous violence.

As for FC being the best TNG Movie, of course! With the most recognized antagonists of the Star Trek Universe, it would be popular. Nothing better then Space Zombies..."Mmmmm brains....oh wait...You will be assimilated..."

Plus who can forget Picard, "The line must be drawn HEEEEEYYAARRRRHH"

*side note*
( Star Trek fans, would understand the whole Data/Borg Queen thing from FC was about the Holy Grail for Data becoming human, what she was offering, and the cost he would incurr for achieving his ultimate goal.)

Thats fine, and I agree that story comes before action in every star trek show.

That IS the difference between a video game and a film though.

"Diplomacy, reason and inventiveness" is not going to translate well to user controlled action. 100 hours of boring dialog trees with NPCs is not something I'd want to see - even games that do have them are more centered on offline games (KOTOR and Mass Effect and such?) and even then they are STILL mainly combat games.

I do agree that we could have done with less missions where its "warp in and get 'kill these 5 groups of klingons'" but at the same time, there is only so far you can take it in the other direction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-05-2010, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
But silly arguments aside, lets recap the situation you and are I actually discussing. The person earlier made the argument that since FC was the most popular TNG movie, and FC was mainly combat, that it stands to reason that STO follow that same example.
No, I didn't, Nagus. Go back and read the post you were responding to. I replied to someone who said that the game has way more killing and violence than Star Trek. My response was that yes, it has more killing and violence than say, TOS by far, but if you look at FC, the most popular of the TNG movies, its actually far more violent (and graphically so) than this game is.

You then made the argument that because FC was 1/4 violence, the game should be 1/4 violence.

The other posters all understood what I was saying, you took it in a totally different direction.
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