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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-07-2010, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
I used to consider myself a pretty good healer. The patch didn't do anything to make healing weaker, and it put some variety into healing instead of pretty much just using ET III whenever it was available, but I'm finding there isn't nearly as much need for healing.
I was thinking the same as you until I was able to join up with my fleet and play against DOB and TTT w/ Faithborn in 5v5s on Saturday night.

After those matches, I realized what I had been missing. If an Engineer in a Cruiser is getting less total healing than the top damage dealer is getting damaeg in a Cap and Hold - you are not optimized yet for the new patch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-07-2010, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
I was thinking the same as you until I was able to join up with my fleet and play against DOB and TTT w/ Faithborn in 5v5s on Saturday night.

After those matches, I realized what I had been missing. If an Engineer in a Cruiser is getting less healing than the top damage dealer on both sides in a Cap and Hold - you are not optimized yet for the new patch.
How often do you get to face serious teams though? On the Fed side it's pretty normal for everyone to have 100k or more healing, which really cuts into the work a "healer" has to do.

My Klink is still much more healing focussed honestly. Klingon ships are more frail overall, a smaller portion of the Klingon fleet seem to be cruisers, and BoPs are not only the most fragile thing in the game but the universal BO stations allow them to run without any engineers at all. The Klingons just need a little more healing.

On the Fed side I still run into the big "why bother?" when it comes to healing. I still occasionally have to jack up my Aux to pull someone out of a pinch, but mostly I was getting really bored when I was putting all my effort into healing the way I used to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-07-2010, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorFury View Post
For the most part I agree with the OP. I was not a fan of boosting healing while nerfing burst damage at the same time. I think we would have been better served to do one then the other if needed. The ramming speed is so out of control that whoever though of reducing the cd timer should be fired. Last night I was in a semi organized cp where the chain rams became the attack of choice....it's lame. While I agree with the claim that bad players are even worse off with this patch I would be a bit more specific. Crappy Engineer pilots in Cruisers can be somewhat effective just because a monkey can play one right now and pretty much stay alive. However, if you sucked as a Tac in an escort/BoP before the patch you probably suck even more now. Yea you might live a bit longer but your dps most likely went in the crapper. To a point now where you are effectively a liability to your group even more then you were pre-patch.


As for myself I'm adapting and figuring out new weapon setups and builds. I'm not crazy about the changes but I think -GoD- will be fine. I'm just waiting for the next round of nerf cries to start, I'm guessing in about a week or two.

Blackjack
nerf blackjack
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-07-2010, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorFury View Post
For the most part I agree with the OP. I was not a fan of boosting healing while nerfing burst damage at the same time. I think we would have been better served to do one then the other if needed. The ramming speed is so out of control that whoever though of reducing the cd timer should be fired. Last night I was in a semi organized cp where the chain rams became the attack of choice....it's lame. While I agree with the claim that bad players are even worse off with this patch I would be a bit more specific. Crappy Engineer pilots in Cruisers can be somewhat effective just because a monkey can play one right now and pretty much stay alive. However, if you sucked as a Tac in an escort/BoP before the patch you probably suck even more now. Yea you might live a bit longer but your dps most likely went in the crapper. To a point now where you are effectively a liability to your group even more then you were pre-patch.


As for myself I'm adapting and figuring out new weapon setups and builds. I'm not crazy about the changes but I think -GoD- will be fine. I'm just waiting for the next round of nerf cries to start, I'm guessing in about a week or two.

Blackjack
I assume you're referring to our encounters last night.

The problem is a cruiser really has no other way to apply burst damage. Hell, we had a lot of fun going up against you guys last night (props to GoD for being insanely talented). I'm sure a couple of our chain rams ****ed you and Santa off a little, but I think we were 4 cruisers and a sci. We had absolutely no other way to take you guys down before you had a chance to escape. Even SNBs to strip your RSPs were simply countered by ST, EPtS, and whatever else was necessary to keep you alive long enough to EM out far enough to cloak and start the process over again. Tractors weren't doing the trick. We didn't have much in the way of BTSE (except for the one sci ship), but even someone with BTSE 3 is now easily countered by an ET. The only 2 things I can think of now to stop a hit and run BoP/Raptor is a stun (photonic shockwave/tricobalt) mid EM or an SNB mid EM.

And this is one of the problems I'm really seeing come to light with this patch. Yeah, the escorts/raptors/BoPs are feeling a pinch when it comes to lower alpha, but even a group of cruisers and science ships are now simply completely incapable of taking down even a single raptor or BoP unless the raptor/BoP makes a mistake, the raptor/BoP pilot is less than capable, or the cruiser/sci gets a well timed ram in. I know this because after our matches I logged in my klink and used your tactics and in several CP matches wasn't taken down even once. I haven't done as much FvF as FvK post patch, but I'd assume the escort is in the same boat.

And, yeah, GoD is adapting to the changes. There are bits and pieces of my cruiser floating around CP to prove it. And I'm adapting, too. I'm just trying to figure out how you guys get such massive damage out of the new uberability. I've been experimenting with setups in my BoP and I'm not having nearly as much success. But props to you guys for getting it figured out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-07-2010, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorena
nerf blackjack
Oh yeah, I forgot to include my nerf cry. Nerf blackjack...and santa. They're evil people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-07-2010, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax_Aeterna
And this is one of the problems I'm really seeing come to light with this patch. Yeah, the escorts/raptors/BoPs are feeling a pinch when it comes to lower alpha, but even a group of cruisers and science ships are now simply completely incapable of taking down even a single raptor or BoP unless the raptor/BoP makes a mistake, the raptor/BoP pilot is less than capable, or the cruiser/sci gets a well timed ram in. I know this because after our matches I logged in my klink and used your tactics and in several CP matches wasn't taken down even once. I haven't done as much FvF as FvK post patch, but I'd assume the escort is in the same boat.
I decoded to log in my fed today and play with the escort. Honestly with the new changes the BOP is far better. The BOPs ability to run a Engineer LT. Commander make it a great little ship. I run a LT CMD on my bop and take DEM II... and then I have 2 more healing slots. On my escort I had to chose... be able to tank the sheilds a bit or be able to heal/resist my hull. The BOP can do both and still run a wicked burst.

Ohh and someone mentioned the N word.... I played a late night scrub last night and was teamed with Blackjack... that guy does deserve one. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-07-2010, 06:01 PM
This patch has gone in the opposite direction of what is supposed to fix, I still see RSP stacking somehow, I won't go into the RSP CD that makes RSP available almost immediately after use. The ramming is becoming the FOTM type ability, I get rammed constantly by at least 3 ships every time I am in combat. In a 5 v 5 cracked I am getting 500K damage in CP with 3 kills where before I was getting 10 with 250K in damage. I keep seeing teams lead by escort spamming scatter volley while they have 2 ES on the escort with HE. So if you concentrate on the Escort good luck if you switch to a healer good luck. Team play has denegrated to death by a thousand paper cuts with one steak knife. I am a tac captain in a cruiser, while survivability is nice I might as well throw spit wads out the airlock at eng/cruiser or eng/sci. The Aux spiking is is unbelievable to the point that BTA is a useless skill. I know I will get the L2P or adapt dogma. I know I am not the greatest Tac/Cruiser out there, I think I am pretty damn good and this latest patch has me befuddled I can't take down a decent eng/cruiser build. Many on this board have said that no ship should survive if focused by 5 ships, I know see escorts surviving with 5+ ships focusing it. The simplest fix to the previous setup was to put in a hard cap and floor to energy and do away with the stacking of abilites like BT(X) and group stacking of AP:B. Instead we get this monstrosity where you need more luck then skill to destroy a ship with a decent build. This patch, like a previous poster has stated, turned great healers into gods, and decent healers into awesome healers with little needed to improve ones setup where as DPS has been relegated into the extremes, BOv III and Scatter Volley. Scatter Volley does more damage now then CRF 3 did and we wont go into BOv III and the torp trick, that is still around.

Either way I refuse to start over so I will continue to play my dailies and wait for more STFs or another patch that swings the balance more towards the middle. Until then I will only PvP on my dailies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-07-2010, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax_Aeterna
I assume you're referring to our encounters last night.

The problem is a cruiser really has no other way to apply burst damage. Hell, we had a lot of fun going up against you guys last night (props to GoD for being insanely talented). I'm sure a couple of our chain rams ****ed you and Santa off a little, but I think we were 4 cruisers and a sci. We had absolutely no other way to take you guys down before you had a chance to escape. Even SNBs to strip your RSPs were simply countered by ST, EPtS, and whatever else was necessary to keep you alive long enough to EM out far enough to cloak and start the process over again. Tractors weren't doing the trick. We didn't have much in the way of BTSE (except for the one sci ship), but even someone with BTSE 3 is now easily countered by an ET. The only 2 things I can think of now to stop a hit and run BoP/Raptor is a stun (photonic shockwave/tricobalt) mid EM or an SNB mid EM.

And this is one of the problems I'm really seeing come to light with this patch. Yeah, the escorts/raptors/BoPs are feeling a pinch when it comes to lower alpha, but even a group of cruisers and science ships are now simply completely incapable of taking down even a single raptor or BoP unless the raptor/BoP makes a mistake, the raptor/BoP pilot is less than capable, or the cruiser/sci gets a well timed ram in. I know this because after our matches I logged in my klink and used your tactics and in several CP matches wasn't taken down even once. I haven't done as much FvF as FvK post patch, but I'd assume the escort is in the same boat.

And, yeah, GoD is adapting to the changes. There are bits and pieces of my cruiser floating around CP to prove it. And I'm adapting, too. I'm just trying to figure out how you guys get such massive damage out of the new uberability. I've been experimenting with setups in my BoP and I'm not having nearly as much success. But props to you guys for getting it figured out.
I've run into a few Cruisers who actually pump out some pretty damn good damage while being able to hang in a fight for a very long time. Granted it might not be huge spike damage but everyones spike damage has been nerfed. 4 cruisers and 1 Science obviously is not an ideal set-up just like us not having any healers in that fight was either. I guess that is why it lasted such a long time but goes to show that a mixed group is ideal as always. I am laughing at some of the people who have actually come out crying that damage is still too high. Guys if it got any damn lower we might as well just declare a truce and go have Woodstock on Risa. Seriously, it might be time to ask for some help from some of the respected PvP'ers in game on ways to improve instead of blaming the game for your failures.

Blackjack
P.S. dont nerf me....nerf Santa
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-07-2010, 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorFury View Post
P.S. dont nerf me....nerf Santa
nerf both of them, *blindly swings the nerf-bat inside of the GoD ventrilo channel*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-08-2010, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorFury View Post
Seriously, it might be time to ask for some help from some of the respected PvP'ers in game on ways to improve instead of blaming the game for your failures.
Amen. If someone is not having success in PvP, the starting point for addressing that problem is recognition it is the player that is the problem.

Once you do that, you'll be ready to listen to the advice that is constantly being put on these forums - some of which is very useful.
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