Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-07-2010, 11:50 PM
HYT is one of the last few spikes left...but i understand people have difficulties shooting them manually in the right moment
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-08-2010, 12:50 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Q
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
06-08-2010, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax_Aeterna
Considering the average rear rack of turrets probably accounts for 10-15% of DPS on an escort,
That's getting away from Bostish's data and stepping back into theorycraft. Let's stick with Bostish's parses. He's using Dual Beam Banks up front, and Beam Arrays in the back. Turrets should be parsed on their own. Then we can look at what turrets do.

In Bostish's data, the Torpedoes are holding their own. There's 7 weapon slots.

And no turrets or Dual Heavy Cannons were measured in the data I read.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
06-08-2010, 03:13 AM
I don't know, I kind of feel the opposite about torps. Prior to this patch, I was flying around in an 8-beam cruiser, happily slaughtering any non-RSP'd ship (1200 damage per beam). After the patch I'd be lucky to get 300 damage, so I switched to torps which I'd previously considered useless.

Torps are still effective, but mostly when used by escorts (HY3) or on escorts (less shield strength). 1v1, cruiser vs cruiser, it comes very much down to luck and the skill of the opposing player to keep his shields up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-08-2010, 03:38 AM
i would like to take a moment and clarify any misgivings when it comes to torpedos. I have always used a single Quant Torp Launcher on my fore weapons loadout. The key to torps is knowing when to use them...especially HY Torp.

There are 2 things to consider when firing torpedos:

1. Will i be able to get the shield facing down before they hit.
2. Will i be able to keep that shield facing down in time for them to hit.

Fortunately, the soloution to both of these queries can be found somewhat easily.

Firstly, It is absolutely nessecary to have the current sheidl facing to at least <20% before you let torps go. If you are firing your torps after the sheidl facing is at 0% then you are firing too late...you have to fire them so they hit at the exact time the shield facing fails...this takes practice.

Secondly, its all a matter of timing as stated above....and distance as i will make clear here. One of the biggest mistakes i see alot of people make is firing torps from too far away. The farther torps have to travel to hit your target two things happen. They will lose accuracy, and the target has a great chance of evading the torps.

I will usually not hit a HY volley unless i am within 3-4 km of someone at the very most. However this raises an interesting problem...at that range how do you get a shield facing down fast enough to fire torps out at exactly the right time without them hitting evasive or something else to get out or defend themselves?

Interesting question...the answer....for me...is Beam Overload...BO is the only skill i have found that can consistently and reliably take down a shield facing in a single hit. So when i enter that 3km range i will most liekly hit BeamOv coupled with a rapid fire or lately scatter volley...and right behind that is my HY III...at that range it is almost garunteed to hit the hull...and if done right can very easily kill any unsuspecting ship....including healboats (cruisers).

Torpedos are not useless...as long as you know how to use them correctly. Timing and Spacing are the two most important factors in Torpedo damage.

Hope this helps.

Love,

Xigent
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
06-08-2010, 04:00 AM
Forget what i said, went back to beams and they're doing decent damage again. Probably just the players I as up against.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 27
06-08-2010, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostish
When i was running around without a torp, I felt I had several opportunities to put one between the eyes.
I appreciate the work you did compiling the numbers. This here is the feeling that may best me in the end though. So many times I though "If I only had a torpedo" and sometimes I just can't whip around fast enough to fire off the aft quantums. Although, maybe I just need to practice some more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
06-08-2010, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax_Aeterna
Considering the average rear rack of turrets probably accounts for 10-15% of DPS on an escort, a torpedo accounting for 15% of DPS is still rather low considering 3 DHCs then account for 70% of damage. Adding a 4th DHC instead of a torp would still actually increase damage.
I do plan on doing Cannon tests on my Klingon Tac. I'll need to make a new BO though, right now I picked Volley III instead of CRFIII (after the patch). Hopefully, I'll have some results of that testing too.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 29
06-08-2010, 06:01 AM
Looking at it from the perspective of total damage done is pointless. Torps aren't there for sustained DPS, they're there for burst. Half my kills or more come from High Yield 3 after my energy weapons drain a facing and keep it down. There's so much healing right now that you can't rely on whittling someone down, ever; when a facing drops, you have to do as much damage as possible RIGHT NOW before they take a bunch of heals and hardens.

Ignoring torps is foolish, most especially on a DPS ship. You can certainly make an all-energy build work, but I don't think you'll have as much success as you expect and I especially don't think it works as well as a build including a torp.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
06-08-2010, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfyre010 View Post
Looking at it from the perspective of total damage done is pointless. Torps aren't there for sustained DPS, they're there for burst. Half my kills or more come from High Yield 3 after my energy weapons drain a facing and keep it down. There's so much healing right now that you can't rely on whittling someone down, ever; when a facing drops, you have to do as much damage as possible RIGHT NOW before they take a bunch of heals and hardens.

Ignoring torps is foolish, most especially on a DPS ship. You can certainly make an all-energy build work, but I don't think you'll have as much success as you expect and I especially don't think it works as well as a build including a torp.
I don't disagree, I do have data to show how much to who. But overall your correct, torps are generally the kill shot. So, hard to measure it's effectiveness, even if it only caused a total of 40k dmg, if each one was kill or near kill shot. Then that was a good thing.
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