Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Learning Curves
06-09-2010, 12:01 PM
We are still less than a week into Season 1.2, and already Feds are finding frustration. The experience is similar to having your mother-in-law give you advice, there is some pain there but you learn to live with it. Why do Feds have this experience?

Because most Fed fleets are not PvP centric, while most Klingon fleets are. If you look at who is having problems adjusting and adapting, learning faster or suffering the learning curve, the single most influencial factor is knowledge. We need to keep these things in mind.

A Klingon fleet - GoD, SVK, Clan Hunters, CHC, etc. but its a long list - is most likely to have several people on with each person testing, learning, and improving themselves in PvP in season 1.2- and in almost every case each fleet is using voice communication to share lessons learned and new ideas. The knowledge transfer is faster, broader, and the experience of the individual players - most of whom had to level via PvP - only contributes greater to the variety of testing possibilities. It is worth noting that with the universal BO slots on a BoP, more variety and combination of skills can be tested at the same time.

Only a handful of Fed fleets are PvP centric - and shocking - those players are adapting faster than other Federation players. Just like Klingon Fleets, pooled knowledge enhances their ability to learn, adapt, adjust, and accumulate knowledge.

People join fleets for different reasons, but if you are a PvPer, and you are having to learn all these changes in PvP by yourself and without friends because your fleet is not an active PvP centric fleet - expect to be behind the curve until sufficient time has past that you have learned what has changed. Every day this week I have adapted with a new tip based solely on 1.2 changes. I can't imagine anyone, even those like me who have PvP fleet resources to draw upon, has figured out how these changes impact individual playstyles towards optimal configurations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-09-2010, 02:17 PM
You made a post which his hard to give an answer to. I generally, agree with most of your statements. Though, I'm not part of a PVP fleet.

My resources are:
Forums
Other players who don't respond with f' off n00b (which btw, no one has done yet, everyone seems to want to share, even people some may fear to see. Be respectful, dont start off "I'm going to report you for hacking".)

I'll play my character, I watch my enemies tactics.. For example, on my Fed, I wasn't sitting there saying zomg, GoD, screw that; Klinks OP. I watched how they opened, when they use abilities, when they knew when to fold them, knew when to hold them, knew when walk... wait.. I'm digressing from my point.

I think a large % of peoples issue is pop it all and see who's left after the smoke.

I don't pop SCI Team, Eng Team, RSP and Haz Emit, cause Iím taking a little dmg. I pick the response to the aggression. So, when I do need something it's there for me. Same thing for offence, I keep in mind someone may snb my attack buffs off. I don't use everything at one time. It maybe a lower ranked version after I refresh, but it will be something more than /zone zomg, you pickle head!

As you will notice below, I'm mostly Klink, but I watch alot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-09-2010, 02:27 PM
I am no sheep, I would rather die a million times and learn the hard way what works than be some lame follower of fashion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-09-2010, 02:27 PM
After a pvp game, look at the top scoring players and ask them if they wouldn't mind giving you some tips. Especially relelvent if they're flying the same ship class as you at the time. Doesnt matter if they're klingon or fed. Most peeps will be happy to answer you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-09-2010, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenda
I am no sheep, I would rather die a million times and learn the hard way what works than be some lame follower of fashion.
I would rather colaborate and adapt the builds that kill you a million times. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenda
I am no sheep, I would rather die a million times and learn the hard way what works than be some lame follower of fashion.
I'll take 10 people like that, who also know how to cooperate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
I'll take 10 people like that, who also know how to cooperate.
It might be prudent to mention that there are only about 3-4 actually creative fleets (that are developping the stratagies) in this game. The rest of the players are either developing on previously discovered tactics/builds or cookie-cuttering the latest FoTM (which gets created by the 3-4 fleets).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
It might be prudent to mention that there are only about 3-4 actually creative fleets (that are developping the stratagies) in this game. The rest of the players are either developing on previously discovered tactics/builds or cookie-cuttering the latest FoTM (which gets created by the 3-4 fleets).
True with almost every MMO, I say almost, well cause I haven't played them ALL. But the ones, I have played, there has always been the ones who lead, and the sheep followed. Then, it gets even funner when people talk poop about them in the forums

Though, I can say, yours and ambience's information was the first I read, when I started playing. Player Guides are nice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-09-2010, 04:48 PM
First i was , then i was , i kept practising and asking and learning, now i am

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-09-2010, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
It might be prudent to mention that there are only about 3-4 actually creative fleets (that are developping the stratagies) in this game. The rest of the players are either developing on previously discovered tactics/builds or cookie-cuttering the latest FoTM (which gets created by the 3-4 fleets).
This actually bothers me a little bit. I tend to be a little bit more creative on the Cruiser side, actively testing for "good builds" on tribble, but I can't seem to do the same on the escort/BoP side. So I just wait until I see what Santa does.

I actually think it's part of the way the game works, though. In EVE, for example, one is almost encouraged to be creative as one can come up with a pretty off the wall setup and actually have it work because the unexpected nature of the setup surprises opponents and often leaves them with no ability to counter your creativity before losing their ship(s). Further, there are quite a few groups that come up with innovative group tactics that each is capable of using to great effect on the battlefield.

In STO, though, there is very little creativity encouraged simply because each ship gets X BO slots and there are only Y BO abilities that are worthwhile. Damage type doesn't really matter. There's no reason to run anything other than energy type consoles for tactical. There's no real reason to run anything other than +power consoles in engineering slots (except maybe 1 EPS). In the end I think equipment plays a small role on the battlefield. This ends up with cookie cutter setups for each role on the battlefield.

So, while in EVE I have multiple options which can be effective (rifter for example can be shield tanked, armor tanked or speed tanked, cap warfare, max damage or remote rep fit, multiple EWAR options, etc) the limited number of effective abilities as well as being hard locked into BO slot types for anything except the BoP really places a limit on creativity in STO. You come up with one or two "Best" fits for a role or fighting style and it's game over. There are some exceptions, but they are most assuredly exceptions rather than the rule.
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