Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
To be able to excel at Space PVP, Ground PVP or PVE you need to have your character fully specced for Space, Ground or a hybrid build for PVE since the high end missions are both challenging in space and ground. I realize that hybrid builds do just fine in either space or ground but there will always be someone, especially in PVP, who have all their points into space or ground skills.

Space and ground skills can only be used separately, in space or on the ground respectively, DOH!!, so why do they draw from the same pool? To make players who want to excel at one part of the game sacrifice their effectiveness in other areas? Or making the player who want to experience the whole game with a main character less effective in space or ground pvp? Perhaps this is why YOU and YOUR team are beaten when you want to pvp?

So what i'm suggesting is to separate space and ground skill pools. I.e. at BG5/RA5 you have 60700 points to spend on space skills and 60700 points to spend on ground skills. This way anyone CAN be just as effective as everyone else in space/ground pvp and pve, without being "forced" to respec.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-11-2010, 09:57 AM
No.

Either you're good at one or the other. Either you're a Naval Officer, or you're a Marine. You don't get to be both.

Deal with it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-11-2010, 10:19 AM
Not this crazy topic again. ugh.


You get a cap of 60,700 skill points. They're not going to give you any more points than that.

So the current way of doing things is best, because of the cap. You get to choose how many o how few points to dedicate to a particular style of gameplay.

If they separate the trees, they'll cut the skill points in half. Or some other ratio. But you'll have less to spend. Because the CAP of 60,700 stays the same. So in effect, this idea messes with the people who dedicate most of or all of their build to one of the choices. Usually that's space combat. And that's a LOT of the players out there. So you're just making a suggestion that would screw over the bulk of the playerbase.

Because they're not going to give you 60,700 points for Space, and then 60,700 for ground.

That would be 121,400 points. And that defeats the purpose of the cap. The cap they put there intentionally.

Logically, this idea is unsound and does not fit into the path the development team chose. Any variations of it that do fit into the path (as in ... do keep the cap in place) end up taking away customization from the players. And that's bad for the players.

Let this idea go. It won't help anyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-11-2010, 11:36 AM
Superchum. Since the skills are used in separate environments it really doesn't matter how many points you put into each tree. I really don't think this is going to happen anytime soon if ever, but for the sake of argument, you bring up a good point. Most players probably have "too many" points in their space skills. And since the STF missions are ment to require a good deal of points in ground skills perhaps this is why many players find them to be too hard. At least that's what many of the forum threads suggest.

Right now we get 60700 points at BG5/RA5 to spend on 66 space skills, 14 ground skills and 3 universal skills (Science team etc.). It's a bad idea to take skills away from people so how about this. 60700 points for space and the 3 universal skills, and 12316 points (or how much more?) for ground skills. But really, the ratio doesnt matter that much.

The point is, right now there is not really any guidline for how much points you should put into space or ground. With a cap for space and ground you would at least be good at something on the ground part of a STF. And if you want to pug a STF, at least you know that the rest of the team actually have skills in the ground game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Or you could just take some time, think it through, and build for both.

There are more than enough points if you take the time to consider how to spend them, instead of min/maxing EVERY system.

I play an Engineer, and my ground game is just as strong as my space.

As a Tac, my ground game is even stronger, because there were more points to spend on ground skills since I was less worried about improving my hull heals and engine efficiency quite as much.

As a Sci, can't say, maybe they need it?

I hear people whining about this all the time, and normally I ignore it, but lately I've been taking the time to help people set up their builds for Space and Ground both. It's a teamwork game; find people you like running with, build your skills for what you like best, plug the holes in your build a little if you have the points, and ask/trust others to fill the gap.

High on damage, low on heals? Find a friend who is low/medium on damage and high on heals, and stay near each other. Problem solved. Pick a role, specialize, and stop trying to do EVERYTHING the absolute best.

In short -- Not L2P, L2T (Learn to Think/Team).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-13-2010, 06:12 AM
I disagree that to be decent at ground or space PvP you have to be fully specced for it.

Sure there is a noticeable difference in your output, but it's the team that makes all the difference. Check the PvP boards, it's not one person claiming to be the unbeatable icon of PvP, it's groups of people claiming they can't be beaten.

Having one set build (either total space or total ground) in my opinion is ignorant and confines your gameplay. I personally don't want to space PvP all day because I can't do anything on the ground. I'd never dream of sending my healer toon into an STF without some medic abilities and space healing abilities.

Yes, there's always that one person who dumped all their points into space talents. Perhaps they entirely hate ground combat, but it sounds like you personally don't.

At this point you have to decide what your gameplay future is.. do you want to be able to raid? You need points in both, do you ONLY enjoy space pvp and hate raiding? Dump everything into space and be done with it.

I personally enjoy raiding, space AND ground pvp so I have a hybrid build. In my opinion a group's performance in PvP or an STF is purely the responsibility of the group, not the fault of one individual (unless you have a healer who brought a mk 4 medic kit to the Cure, but even that can be mostly overcome with some forethought and positioning.

ALSO, you can't really tell if someone is a pure space spec without them telling you so, and this is the internet so they're probably lying. If you see someone THAT good at PvP, I'd re-evaluate how good their GROUP actually was in supporting them and take note.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-14-2010, 12:11 AM
Totally agree with OP. Maybe if I watched a Star Trek were the captain was good in space but garbage on an away team I would agree with the haters, but I haven't seen it yet. Even old man Picard managed to not get beaten into retirement each time he beamed down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-14-2010, 07:21 AM
Also agree with the OP. I see absolutely nothing wrong with having a duo spec, one for ground and one for space. Afterall, if everyone can use this duo spec system, the only ones who will have an advantage is those that know how to spec a character, and then also being capable at playing said spec.

Under this system, I am not talking about adding more skill points, but rather allowing a person to spec seperataly for both. Those that worry if such an idea were allowed, might be those that worry about the playing field being levelled to evenlly. I say let us duo spec and let the chips fall where they may, and let the truly best ground person and space person prove their mettle on the field of battle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-15-2010, 07:16 AM
So basically three options. Space, ground or both.
What do you play?
Spec in one of the options, i personally try and balance for both. Bottom line is that pefect balance for what you do. Yes some in PVP spec purely ground or space and do a lot better at ONE or the other on that charactor. If thats how they enjoy the game it's ok. heh after radm5 what else is there. spec in one and go to town in PVP lol I personally havent yet but you can Definantly tell the ones that do...
If they made two respecs or raised the cap every body would be still equal in options and still wanting more.
Just like the abilities and the nerfs to them. Every body is looking for that edge wether it be in that special ability or that perfect spec. Just like before they nerfed VM and FBP, that was the edge. you had it or you didnt. (just an example) Cryptic is trying to keep it balanced the best they can, an ongoing process.....ugh Without any one or two things being able to make such an impact. This game in general is based on space AND ground so they incourage a balanced spec as such. But some peeps dont like it and go one or the other in PVP and like i said that is ok, that is thier game.... Just a thought, hope that made since.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-16-2010, 08:22 AM
I am all for a Duel spec. it worked for WOW it can work here. me personally i do mostly Space pvp so i am spec'd space heavy. would like the ground spec for ground PVE content so i can run it epic mode as well as PVP. it would bring a bigger balance to PVP in both locations IMPO its hard being half spec'd in space trying to take on a fully spec'd opponent. it would be a great next step for balance in game.
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