Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-14-2010, 11:30 AM
Nobody is killing you in 1.5 seconds. It's just not happening.

My in-game experience, both as the pilot of a well equipped Escort and a well-equipped Battlecruiser, differs from yours. My Escort doesn't kill people - even terrible people - in 2 seconds, and my Cruiser doesn't die in 2 seconds. The only time I actually drop a target in under five seconds is when that target is an Escort or BoP, has no defensive cooldowns available, and can't or won't run. My Cruiser can tank a single DPS ship for literally a minute or more at a time.

I'm saying that you're doing something wrong. It's really that simple.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-14-2010, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfyre010 View Post
Nobody is killing you in 1.5 seconds. It's just not happening.

My in-game experience, both as the pilot of a well equipped Escort and a well-equipped Battlecruiser, differs from yours. My Escort doesn't kill people - even terrible people - in 2 seconds, and my Cruiser doesn't die in 2 seconds. The only time I actually drop a target in under five seconds is when that target is an Escort or BoP, has no defensive cooldowns available, and can't or won't run. My Cruiser can tank a single DPS ship for literally a minute or more at a time.

I'm saying that you're doing something wrong. It's really that simple.
Dude...I looked up as I was leaving the area, I saw the volley of cannons come inbound from a just few kilometers away, my facing shield arc dropped to nothing, I hit Emg Shields just before the next volley of cannon and HYT III struck and then RSP just after they hit...as I was extending away with RSP, I had single digit hull(the engagement started off at 97% hull) and near full shields.

Lastly, I read the combat log...so I saw the multiple strikes of Cannon Rapid Fire III and HYT III all hitting several thousand HP.

Apparently your Escort build isnt as good as you think. Most escorts arent doing it, but there are a few that are.

All I could have done was have those skills already up and running...so basically I made the mistake of not being psychic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-14-2010, 11:49 AM
Well thats it......I'm going to stop playing Nerf Trek and play RageQuit Trek. Stop asking for Nerfs. Learn to play the game. Unless its a bug that is to be fixed, adapt and work with it.

The keyboard thing would be cool, to be balanced, it could be a random key every 4 seconds for a duration of 20 seconds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-14-2010, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Dude...I looked up as I was leaving the area, I saw the volley of cannons come inbound from a just few kilometers away, my facing shield arc dropped to nothing, I hit Emg Shields just before the next volley of cannon and HYT III struck and then RSP just after they hit...as I was extending away with RSP, I had single digit hull(the engagement started off at 97% hull) and near full shields.

Lastly, I read the combat log...so I saw the multiple strikes of Cannon Rapid Fire III and HYT III all hitting several thousand HP.

All I could have done was have those skills already up and running...so basically I made the mistake of not being psychic.
I agree that I have seen some Escort class ships deliver a great deal of damage like you mention in a short burst. There are some defenses that you may need to be more proactive with. If the attacker was just a few kilometers away, then they managed to get too close. I try to use my minimap to see incoming enemies and prepare for them before they get in that close, since energy weapons do more damage the closer they are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-14-2010, 01:24 PM
I've had Escorts kill me with in a matter of several seconds from full shield and hull; they either cloak or sneak up on me, use every single damage skill to their disposal, since most besides Attack patterns don't seem to have global CD, and they can punch through one side of your shield in about a second, then a High Yield torpedo salvo hits your hull.... and bang your dead.

It really sucks because in PvP it's next to impossible to be fully aware of your surroundings most the time, especially as a science I'm trying to keep my friends alive.

Beam overload, High Yield, and Rapid Fire all used in unison I believe walks the lines of being slightly excessive; they're all skills that provide burst damage, and since global CDs are supposto to be used with skills that have similar if not the same effects, I don't see why the OP is wrong in calling it OP.

Beam overload by itself isn't OP, but with the consecutive use of other Burst damage skills I think I would have to agree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-14-2010, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioDragon View Post
I agree that I have seen some Escort class ships deliver a great deal of damage like you mention in a short burst. There are some defenses that you may need to be more proactive with. If the attacker was just a few kilometers away, then they managed to get too close. I try to use my minimap to see incoming enemies and prepare for them before they get in that close, since energy weapons do more damage the closer they are.
I was actually exiting the area...I was on a Capture node right next to the Fed spawn. He had just came from the spawn and it brought him in on my blind side just as I was leaving. I was turning out, and as my nose came around thats when I saw him.

I dont have an issue with me making a bad choice in staying as long as I did, and thus getting stuck in fight. I dont have an issue with being beat by an Escort...I have an issue with being limited by poor UI in order to respond to a tactic that the mechnics enable.

The offrnsivr player gets no hinderance from being able to queue up multiple high vaule skills in a couple of seconds to create multiple issues for a defender, followed quickly by death...all at once, while the defender is unable to respond to the multiple issues simultaneously. There is no one button answer to HYT, C:RF and/or BO ot TSS: Shields...but they can be delivered in one push of a button by the attacker.

You have to get the shield up before RSP, but the salvo punches through and delivers massive burst before RSP gets up. Activate RSP first and you have a dead shield arc that still lets the salvo through. Activating any hull defenses or Brace for Impact first, ignores the fact that they cant help if your are already dead or if the shield arc is still down. If nearly the full brunt of the 1-2 salvos are hitting the hull, you are already dead...you're just waiting for the latency and number crunching to catch up.

The problem isnt even som much the Burst, but that there is no realstic way to respond to it. Why? because my crew isnt a crew, they cant work pro-activly or as a coordinated team(especially regarding defensive skills for some reason). I have to activate each crew memeber and it skills individually or nearly so. While the Burst tactic allows the attack to operate on a single command...as a crew ought to work.

The UI gives a unit a 1.5 sec kill window of 2-3 specials on a single button push or two...while we have to spend 2-3 secs to actiavte the the required multiple counters as they are identified...its bad mechanics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-15-2010, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy1337
I've had Escorts kill me with in a matter of several seconds from full shield and hull; they either cloak or sneak up on me, use every single damage skill to their disposal, since most besides Attack patterns don't seem to have global CD, and they can punch through one side of your shield in about a second, then a High Yield torpedo salvo hits your hull.... and bang your dead.

It really sucks because in PvP it's next to impossible to be fully aware of your surroundings most the time, especially as a science I'm trying to keep my friends alive.

Beam overload, High Yield, and Rapid Fire all used in unison I believe walks the lines of being slightly excessive; they're all skills that provide burst damage, and since global CDs are supposto to be used with skills that have similar if not the same effects, I don't see why the OP is wrong in calling it OP.

Beam overload by itself isn't OP, but with the consecutive use of other Burst damage skills I think I would have to agree.
So u guys actully think that BO3 is OP.It doesn't have anything to do with the timing of a skilled player for torps hitting on a open shield.Before u scream nerf a skill learn how to fly and spec ur ships.Jesus i am getting tired of rebuilding my ships every patch cause u noobs don't understand the game mechanics,and have no skill lvl whatsoever.Instead of waiting till patch day to find out what has changed spend some time on tribble testing so u know what u need when it goes live.And of course never forget FEDS Have no idea how to work togther as a unit.There is only a few fed teams maybe 5 at most the makes us klingons take pause.DOB,182,jsut to name 2 of them.Sorry i am ranting but dam if i see one more nerf post i am gonna scream.DON'T confuse skill of player or players with overpowered abilites,Drag yourselves out of pve misssons,and stfs that are pointless and go into pvp where the game is.The computer AI even on elite lvl is a joke at best and is in no way reflective on what goes on when playing against a live player.Remember a live player will always find skill combos and weapon loadouts to maximize DPS.U WANT TO TALK ABOUT AN OP ability ramming speed is the one.No way a BOP should be able to ram Star cruiser and watch the cruiser go BOOM while BOP flys away with 80% HULL STILL Intact.(I did that btw)ridicuolus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-15-2010, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrock3000
So u guys actully think that BO3 is OP.It doesn't have anything to do with the timing of a skilled player for torps hitting on a open shield.Before u scream nerf a skill learn how to fly and spec ur ships.Jesus i am getting tired of rebuilding my ships every patch cause u noobs don't understand the game mechanics,and have no skill lvl whatsoever.Instead of waiting till patch day to find out what has changed spend some time on tribble testing so u know what u need when it goes live.And of course never forget FEDS Have no idea how to work togther as a unit.There is only a few fed teams maybe 5 at most the makes us klingons take pause.DOB,182,jsut to name 2 of them.Sorry i am ranting but dam if i see one more nerf post i am gonna scream.DON'T confuse skill of player or players with overpowered abilites,Drag yourselves out of pve misssons,and stfs that are pointless and go into pvp where the game is.The computer AI even on elite lvl is a joke at best and is in no way reflective on what goes on when playing against a live player.Remember a live player will always find skill combos and weapon loadouts to maximize DPS.U WANT TO TALK ABOUT AN OP ability ramming speed is the one.No way a BOP should be able to ram Star cruiser and watch the cruiser go BOOM while BOP flys away with 80% HULL STILL Intact.(I did that btw)ridicuolus.
As I tried to suggest...its not the individual skill thats OP. Its the readily available means of comboing it with one or two other very effective XYZ III skills which make the total combo excessive. The timing of their use isnt really a skill.

Its to easy to queue up certain skills and deliver in one button push, an onslaught of issues that no other single push and resolve. The inherit weakness of the UI, crew mechanics(or actually, the lack of a working crew dynamic) makes an attack that requires a multi-faceted/crew response...but without giving the players a viable means of executing a multi-faceted responses within the window of opportunity required to survive the attack.

I need 3-5 BO skills across 1-3 BOs to go off almost simultaneously within 1.5 to 2.5 secs...thats not even considering the time it takes to recognize the attack, recognize the problems and then initiating the proper responses. Even if I could instantly do all that...it still not possible to get all those BO specials to activate simulataneously, or in time if done sequentally and in the right order, especially some have to activate before others.

What do we need to combat this excesive Burst? Either deminish it...or

Allow us to set up custom combos. Allow us to set up a few custom combos with names like "Defensive Pattern X-Ray" which allow us to pre-set BO skills to a single button push. Then we have the ability to queue up defenses and activate them with a singl ebutton stroke....just like the attacker can. im not upset with the offensive skills necessarily...my probelm is with the inherit restrictions witin the model to respond to it.

Its simple...but of course, the excessivly offensive minded designer of the combat model apparently didnt think about that as an aspect of combat balance. Just like there is no concept of blocking for melee combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-15-2010, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
Allow us to set up custom combos. Allow us to set up a few custom combos with names like "Defensive Pattern X-Ray" which allow us to pre-set BO skills to a single button push. Then we have the ability to queue up defenses and activate them with a singl ebutton stroke....just like the attacker can. im not upset with the offensive skills necessarily...my probelm is with the inherit restrictions witin the model to respond to it.
There is keybinding system in STO. I use it for defense and offense... here is a good forum posting on the subject.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=66110

I use this to great effect...
/bind q "+TrayExecByTray 3 0 $$ +TrayExecByTray 3 1 $$ +TrayExecByTray 3 2 $$ +Power_Exec Distribute_Shields"

I place Emergency Power to Sheilds in Row 4 space 0... EMTS II in Row 4 Space 1... and Aux to Sruc in Row 4 Space 2.

Now all you need to do is nail that key almost constanly at least when you get attacked.
Hit Q + evasive (Or setup a keybind for an evasive combo you like)
If you run 2 Emergency to Shield powers you will always have a min 25% shield resist running... think about it 45 second cool down, 30 second resist... in fact you have overlap and higher resist for a short time.

Another option is to add Transfer shield strength into that combo... you can run it on yourself and it stacks with EPTS. Its a shorter resist but together with EPTS you will gain lots of resit.

I hope it helps... a lot of players simply need to examine there setup. I have changed my setup 100s of times and I will continue to do just that.
Look at how many resist powers you have... and balance them out hull / shield... Heal / Resist... offense / defense.

Also consider changing up your normal boff skills to balance your own build. Run a power like DEM on an enginear slot to give you more offense... or run FPB on a sci to give you more defense. Things like Emergency power to Dampeners is underused... it can give you 70% resist to kinetic dmg + a nice speed bump.

Bottom line there are tons of options to put together a build that will survive an alpha strike.

I can pop a bad build in 3 seconds no doubt.... and I have run into guys that I could dual for 2 hours and still be stalemated. Piloting matters no doubt... but even a master needs the right tools to do great things.

(Another tip... I know a lot of dps dealers are using AOE powers like Scatter... consider keeping a scramble on hand, watching a swooping dps ship tear a hole in their own is worth it)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-15-2010, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
As I tried to suggest...its not the individual skill thats OP. Its the readily available means of comboing it with one or two other very effective XYZ III skills which make the total combo excessive. The timing of their use isnt really a skill.

Its to easy to queue up certain skills and deliver in one button push, an onslaught of issues that no other single push and resolve. The inherit weakness of the UI, crew mechanics(or actually, the lack of a working crew dynamic) makes an attack that requires a multi-faceted/crew response...but without giving the players a viable means of executing a multi-faceted responses within the window of opportunity required to survive the attack.

I need 3-5 BO skills across 1-3 BOs to go off almost simultaneously within 1.5 to 2.5 secs...thats not even considering the time it takes to recognize the attack, recognize the problems and then initiating the proper responses. Even if I could instantly do all that...it still not possible to get all those BO specials to activate simulataneously, or in time if done sequentally and in the right order, especially some have to activate before others.

What do we need to combat this excesive Burst? Either deminish it...or

Allow us to set up custom combos. Allow us to set up a few custom combos with names like "Defensive Pattern X-Ray" which allow us to pre-set BO skills to a single button push. Then we have the ability to queue up defenses and activate them with a singl ebutton stroke....just like the attacker can. im not upset with the offensive skills necessarily...my probelm is with the inherit restrictions witin the model to respond to it.

Its simple...but of course, the excessivly offensive minded designer of the combat model apparently didnt think about that as an aspect of combat balance. Just like there is no concept of blocking for melee combat.
It's called hotkeying when i go to decloak i hit one key all selected abilities cast .Dude it is basic gameplay 101. And just to combat the notion that skill is not envoled timing ur attacks is the basics of any MMO u play. Just becuase u die just means u need to rethink ur ship built weapon loadouts and playstyle because there is a problem. Any ship and i do mean any ship will die is focuses by 5 enemy ships no amount of abilties will save u unless u and a soild build fly it well and have a good team backing u up it's not rocket science.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines. Constructive feedback is good, however, please leave out the flaming and name calling. ~GM Tiyshen"
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:51 PM.