Go Back   Star Trek Online > Information and Discussion > The Academy
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
12-30-2010, 04:15 AM
A most excellent series of posts. An outstanding job to be sure!
This is likely the most useful and accurate reference tool for the community to date.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
12-30-2010, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimni
Thats something i would like to know too.

At far as i know, 125 is max power.
If u have more the power u got more than 125 is used up first when u shoot.
So if u have 135 weapon power (only 125 is shown) and u shoot an 10 energy weapon ur shown power stays at 125.

U dont get more dmg over, because 125 weapon power already is max dmg bonus.
But if u shoot 4 weapons (10 energy each) and u got 165 weapon power every shot will deal max dmg.

Am i right?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________


The way I understand it is your first shot is no energy cost any way. The hard cap is 135 so anything over that is a waste. So the power cost would be 30 points. so all your shots will be at 135 - 30 power = 105 power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
12-30-2010, 08:17 AM
Sorry to repost this from another thread, but maybe here someone can tell me how the following observation fits into the current view of the energy system:


Quote:
I think there's a hard limit at 125 in place right now.

Just checked by observing how long it takes for energy levels to drop when switching from the attack power setting and 124 weapon energy to another power level preset. Power starts dropping 0.5 seconds after pushing the power level preset hotkey and drops by 5 points every 0.5 seconds. It didn't matter whether I applied EptW I (+24 Weapon Power Setting for 30 seconds) or not, weapon energy always started to drop from 125 0.5 seconds after hitting the hotkey, which it wouldn't do if it was dropping from a higher energy level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
12-30-2010, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerb333 View Post
The way I understand it is your first shot is no energy cost any way. The hard cap is 135 so anything over that is a waste. So the power cost would be 30 points. so all your shots will be at 135 - 30 power = 105 power.
Close, but if you follow Nagorak work you will see that that calculation is overly simplistic. It does get the idea across, but since not all weapons fire at once the actual power that each weapon fires at (beyond the 2nd) is higher than your calculation presents.

Ex. A typical cruiser build will include 1 DBB & 5 BA (give or take)

With weapons power pushing the hard cap at 135 the following happens:

1. First beam fires at 125 power.
2. Second beam fires at 125 power.
3. Third beam fires at 115 power.
4. First beam goes on cool down.
5. Fourth beam fires at 115 power.
6. Second beam goes on cooldown.
7. Fifth beam fires at 115 power.
8. Third beam goes on cooldown.
9. Sixth beam fires at 115 power.

This example is just as simplistic. If I'm right <crosses fingers>, this shows what is happening during the firing sequence. Nagorak?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
01-07-2011, 03:59 AM
first thks for your work..

in the results, what is the meaning of 5/+1T or 6/+2T ....7/+3T 8/+4T?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
01-07-2011, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chat1900
what is the meaning of 5/+1T or 6/+2T ....7/+3T 8/+4T?
The "T" indicates the number of turrets accounted for during the testing. 1 - 4 is for each forward firing beam. When it gets to 5+, he considers either a beam broadside (the 5 in this case) or a frontal assault with 1 turret firing from an aft slot. So, 5/+1T = 5 beams or 4 beams +1 turret; 7/+3T = 7 beams or 4 beams + 3 turrets; etc.


"... The graphs scale from a single weapon up to 4 weapons for frontal arc weapons, and up to 8 weapons for beams and turrets. ..."

And ... Thank you Nagorak. This has been an enlightening post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
01-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Sorry, I haven't been keeping up on this thread. It kind of seemed like people had lost interest, so I stopped checking in as much.

Overcapping

In regards to the weapon hard/soft cap question, there appears to now be a hard cap at 135 weapon power. Don't ask me why it's not 125. It used to be that you could overcap to like 165 or so and fire almost all your weapons at full power, but that changed at some point. If you go up to 135 power you'll do a bit more damage than at 125, provided you are using more than 1 weapon, because your second weapon effectively fires for free.

I suppose it's possible the hard cap has been changed to 125, but last time I checked it seemed to be 135. The easiest way to see is by equipping only 2 weapons, or by seeing what power level you "bottom out" at.

Some people have claimed that using a certain combination of skills ignored the hard cap, but I haven't personally experienced that. I can try to make a point to do some more investigating on that issue to see whether it's true or not. I'm sort of skeptical, to be honest.

Energy Drain Example

Tranceaddict's example is more or less correct, although still somewhat simplistic as he admitted. In reality the second weapon seems to fire closer to the full power level than would be expected if the full energy was removed right away.

Due to the game mechanics and the limitations of what is recorded in the combat log, it's unfortunately not possible to figure exactly how quickly energy drains out without a lot more work. Theoretically you could look at every cluster of weapons fire, and then average the first shot in every sequence, the second shot, third shot, and so on, and from that come up with an average damage for each shot. Then based on that damage you could calculate the exact power level the shots were performed at. However, that would be a lot of work and I don't think it would really be worth the effort.

Observed Lag In Energy Drain From Power Display

I'm also not sure how accurate the in-game power display actually is. It's true power doesn't seem to drop immediately, and that obviously has something to do with the game mechanics, as I've observed it in my weapons tests, but I don't know whether the in-game display always accurately reflects what your current power level is. Just a little lag could throw it off, for example. With the in-game weapons tests we at least know it's accurate due to it all being server side (the client just gets told what damage they did, based off what the server thinks your power level is).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
01-07-2011, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chat1900
first thks for your work..

in the results, what is the meaning of 5/+1T or 6/+2T ....7/+3T 8/+4T?
Tranceaddict is correct, the +xT stands for the number of turrets. You can't equip more than 4 frontal weapons at once because that is the maximum number of forward weapon slots any ship has. So, beyond that point the only way to add damage is to equip turrets.

I updated the chart information post to specify this more clearly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
01-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
Sorry, I haven't been keeping up on this thread. It kind of seemed like people had lost interest, so I stopped checking in as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
After I do some more testing, at least at 50 power level, I'm going to make a calculator like PatricianVetinari's. Maybe that's the ticket to getting stickied. :p
I haven't had the spare time from RL to read forums for over a month, so I'm rather impressed with all the work you've done in such a short period, especially to eliminate the range/fire arc noise. This thread is certainly of enough interest to players that it deserves to be stickied, but I suspect that reference from other sticky threads (like PatricianVeninari's) is the best the community will get.

If the devs do indeed tinker with the basic formula or mechanics without reference in the release notes as experience suggests, or simply have bugs crop up in the code from time to time, then they won't sticky something like this because the graphs give precise damage numbers. Stickying a thread is a way of branding the contents as official, and they will probably want to retain the flexibility to make alterations to improve the game... without the possibility of backlash from the community.

Really, the exact numbers could change the update after they where gathered. But don't let that cause you to lose interest. I'm sure that any major change like happened around season 2 would get mentioned, and the data gathered still helps people make the decision about what weapons combination is right for them.

I'm sure there would be a certain pleasure in having all the hard work rewarded with some recognition from the devs themselves, but you have the recognition of the community. In fact I'm impressed enough with what you've done recently that I'm adding this thread to my signature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
01-15-2011, 01:01 PM
I just tested it out the way Nagorak mentioned:

2 Dual Heavy Cannons with 141 weapon energy (two consoles): Shortly after firing my energy dropped to 113 points.

This points towards an even soft- and hardcap.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55 AM.