Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 621
06-16-2010, 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
Um what? access and a subscription? Thats the same thing. Regardless you are incorrect. The advertisement listed all items included in exactly the same fashion. The subscription itself was an equal bullet point to all other items it came with.
Actually it's not. Nice try tho.

Quote:
You might see it differently in your head, but thats not the reality of how it was sold. Nowhere did it say 'free bonuses' in relation to the other items in the package.
It also DOES NOT say "exclusive" in regard to the Mirror Universe costumes. So I guess that flattens your argument, doesn't it?

Quote:
Um nice try, but no. It was sold as a package, and the package as a whole had a cash value. It was not possible to buy them separately. To contribute my own bad analogy to the others flying around, if I really want the just body of a certain car, I have to buy the whole car. They wont sell it to me separately, so i cant ascribe a value to it.
Dude, you're just wrong. You've gotten to the point where you're arguing semantics. Stop while you're behind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 622
06-16-2010, 08:54 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 623
06-16-2010, 08:55 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 624
06-16-2010, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFabulous
Exactly. Which is why you didn't buy them. You cannot pay for something that has no cash value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFabulous
No, the reality is you paid for a lifetime membership and got a number of no-cost bonus items included with that membership. Since, at the time, none of the bonus items had any cash value (as they could not be otherwise purchased on their own) you cannot reasonably attempt to say you paid for them. Then again, the theme of this whole thread has been mind-blowingly unreasonable.

You two can try to spin things any way you want but you're only deluding yourselves.
There is no thing such as a free item (meal). There's a price that has to be paid in some fashion for everything. Be it kissing up to the right people and get a free car with the new job. Be it having to pay with gratitude and flowers for having the dinner served when you get home every day. Be it having to pick one package and paying more for it to get the free item then the package would cost if you didn't get the one that included the free item.

Sorry but your reasoning doesn't hold.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 625
06-16-2010, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard-Warrior View Post
Yes I did.

I still would have bought them when I did. The extra money I paid was a premium to satisfy my impatience. I read the pre-order FAQ. I understood that the bonuses would be in the C-Store at some point. I didn't feel like waiting for them to go in there, so I spent the money early. I don't fault Cryptic for that. I don't think they lied to, swindled, tricked or decieved me in any way, shape or form. I don't believe I deserve a refund or any kind of compensation for anything I bought.

I'm happy to see Sol station polluted with Caitians in their Mirror Uniforms flying their Connies. It means people are buying things that make them happy and they are enjoying their purchases. At least to me, that's the goal for these things - to make people happy playing a game they enjoy.

From what I'm seeing in what's been added to STO since launch, and what's coming down the road for Season 2 and beyond, I can see my upfront investment has helped the game and is going toward things that interest not only myself, but many others as well.

Now, will I do the same for another game? It depends on what the game is and what the bonuses are. If its a game I know I would be interested in and the bonuses are something I don't feel like waiting for, then I will pay a premium for them early. If not something that I find interesting, then I won't.
Honest answer and I do appreciate it. Wasn't really a trick question. I was just curious.

I certainly understand the value of getting something sooner than later. But the timeframe between those two points was so minimal, I couldn't see making the expense myself on the Pre-order goodies. Unless it were a game I expected to only play a few months. Which doesn't seem to be the case on any Lifetime purchasers. It would have to be an item I really wanted and a wait of more than 6 months in that situation.

Obviously in the case of the CO-LT I only got a month. In hindsight I never would have made that purchase, since on every concevable level with me they failed to deliver properly. Even on the Champions side. heck, They even overcharged me.

STO-LT is a little trickier to say. But if I had full knowledge of everything I know at this point (Not just the C-store move but whats coming) I'd have passed on it. Less of a customer service issue though and more that something coming trumped the deciding factor in making the purchase.

For future games or incentives I can't ever see investing in them now no matter what they were. If I were to divorce myself from my own particulars, I think it would be highly unlikely I'd ever buy anything past the base game, from the location that offered the one incentive I liked best.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 626
06-16-2010, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attilio View Post
Sorry to say but you need to read the fine print.



It is located under item 12. Purchases of the Terms of Service
lol at how everyone ignored your post... they just can't accept it can they?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 627
06-16-2010, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dojen
Don't bother all you will get back is that the customers fault for not knowing and they will link to the faq yet again

Pretty much this.

Cryptic was wrong for this and the excuse choir knows it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 628
06-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by danfiveten View Post
Yah but dont you guys realize by doing this you guys have shot yourselvs in the foot. Every time you launch a game, your pre order sales are now going to be way way down. Because you have given yourselves the bad name of giving away the exclusives. so whats the point? Hell i now some people that bought the co sub that done even play that failure for a game. Why play co when coh is so much better, sorry to say it but it is. You guys need to realize you want to keep your customer base happy, yes you have buy making these items exclusive to now eveyone, but you have screwed yourselves over for furure sales of future games, because the bonus's as you now put them not exclusives will never be worth the fue extra bucks if you can just buy them in the c store.
I really doubt this. I'm pretty sure that there will always be people out there willing to pay extra for the "privilege" of being first, or the ability to lord it over others.

Some may also be obsessive fan types who simply must have every trinket and knick-knack available. If they are willing to pay to fuel their obsession, why should a company not take advantage of it?
Actually people who are frugal with their $$$ will opt to "buy later" if they know in the near future (after launch) they can get the same "exclusive" items cheaper.

For example:

Atari digital deluxe edition = $59.99

Offers the following "exclusive" items:
  • TOS Uniform Set (in-game item)
  • Joined Trill
  • Exclusive "KHAAAN!" Emote (in-game item)
  • Exclusive Klingon Blood Wine Toast Emote (in-game item)
  • Unique Registry Prefix (in-game item)
  • Unique Ship Item (in-game item)

Here's the Cryptic store points for those items:
  • TOS Uniform = 280 pts
  • Joined Trill = 240 pts
  • NX Registry = 80 pts
  • Kahn Emote = 20 pts
  • Bloodwine Emote = 20 pts

640 total pts.

At the current Cryptic store cost of $0.0125 per point, 640 pts = $8

Current retail price is $26.46 for the Standard Edition of STO from Amazon, that's a savings of $25.53

So the original poster's comment about pre order sales going down is possible, because in the long run it is still cheaper to wait, buy the "standard" edition, spend $8 getting the items you would've gotten anyway, and pocket the $25.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 629
06-16-2010, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
Um what? access and a subscription? Thats the same thing. Regardless you are incorrect. The advertisement listed all items included in exactly the same fashion. The subscription itself was an equal bullet point to all other items it came with. You might see it differently in your head, but thats not the reality of how it was sold. Nowhere did it say 'free bonuses' in relation to the other items in the package.
You wish to claim that a product that was clearly labeled as Star Trek Online, but had bulleted items listing extra incentives, was in fact selling those incentives and not Star Trek Online? Please give me an example of Cryptic selling a box labeled "Mirror Universe Uniform" with the list of incentives including "free access to STO."

So, let's summarize your argument:

1. People purchased a product called "Mirror Universe Uniforms," and with that purchase they were given a free copy of the game.

2. Even if the product was not so labeled, it was a "package," which means that all the items included were reflected in the price because they were essentially of equal value.

3. If one of these special "packages" does not clearly label certain items as "free bonuses," then it must be assumed that you are paying for them, and not anything else, and the company is obliged to compensate you regardless of what you believe you are owed.

4. "Exclusive" has always meant "for all time"

5. Therefore, people who purchased Mirror Universe Uniforms, and just happened to get a free lifetime subscription, or early access, with those uniforms, are entitled to hold those items forever, and no one else may have them.

QED, It's not my head you should worry about.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 630
06-16-2010, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simale
There is no thing such as a free item (meal). There's a price that has to be paid in some fashion for everything. Be it kissing up to the right people and get a free car with the new job. Be it having to pay with gratitude and flowers for having the dinner served when you get home every day. Be it having to pick one package and paying more for it to get the free item then the package would cost if you didn't get the one that included the free item.

Sorry but your reasoning doesn't hold.
And none of this made any sense to me. So if a retailer has a "buy one get one free" promotion I'm not really getting that second item free? Cause I have a number of items right here on my desk that I got for "free" -- as in, I didn't pay a single penny for them, not even shipping. Are we now going to argue the semantics of the word "free" in addition to "package" and "exclusive"? Thanks, but no thanks. I think most people understand the concept of "free" without any extra analysis.

And AFAIK there is no additional cost for getting pre-order items. You pay exactly the same amount for the game either way. So sorry, but they are indeed "free" bonuses.
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