Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 531
08-26-2010, 10:03 PM
Thank you, Amosov. I hadn't gotten a good look at the particular Master Situation Display for the Enterprise-B. But it wouldn't be the first time those productions didn't literally translate the models.

I was just looking at the opening close-up's of Sulu's Excelsior (watched my ST: VI dvd) as it approaches camera. And, indeed, those are the photon tubes on the secondary hull. They are just tighter and more recessed into the hull than, say, the TMP's Constitution or the Miranda's of the period. I also compared that with the close-up to that Christie's Auction link above? IMO, as displayed upon the model, those openings come into line-of-sight conflict with the lower sensor array of the saucer. And aren't, IMO, good choices for photon tubes. The openings on the dorsal look like they have some form of hatch cover. At least they do to me. Which may be where the small craft docking port idea sprung from amongst some aficionados. The dorsal of the Excelsior has always been a bit of a mystery. Since its all beveled and no windows to speak of.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 532
08-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi'a Meese
Having played around with the T3 Excelsior, I'm bothered by the photon tubes being placed within those forward, dorsal openings. I could be mistakan, but those square indention's weren't clearly defined. But I recall assumptions that small support craft sat behind small doors there? Technically, the photon tubes are those smaller holes to either side of the secondary hull. Which made it into the design but aren't being used. Below that row of forward windows?

I'm not really fond of the beam hardpoints on the front edge of the saucer either. While that style is typical of original STO designs, they are just out of place on the older cruiser styles. Granted that isn't the Art Department's decision to put them there. I hated seeing my dual phaser fire from the edges instead of an upper or lower phaser strips. If a decision were made to shift phaser from the saucer edge, it would free the artists to remove those entirely. Which would, IMO, improve the visual style of the starship. Those short phaser strips as opposed to the 23rd century banks don't bother me at all. I see it as a starship design modified for 25th century standards.

I also found the nacelle windows a bit out of place. I thought to myself, 'what a weird place for an observation lounge.' We know from TNG that the Galaxy nacelles were large enough to house a support room of some kind. Enterprise did this again later. Though these rooms were located deep enough to not have windows.

What forward dorsal openings?

Also, I'm disappointed to find out that the beams aren't firing from the phaser banks on the top and bottom of the saucer. : /
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 533
08-27-2010, 01:23 AM
http://www.mutara.net/Christies/deta...a/IMG_1723.JPG

The blue details within the ribbed dorsal there? The in-game T3 (and likely the T5 also?) has weapon hard points placed in these spots for the photons. I don't believe them to be weapons mounts on the real model. From a strictly forward view of the real model, that dorsal area is somewhat obscured by the lower saucer sensor array. So I'm suggesting that weapon's hard points don't belong there. The photon tubes are actually those small recessed area's just forward of the Federation pennant. That is where the torpedoes launch from on Sulu's Excelsior during the final battle of Star Trek VI. But the in-game model doesn't appear to use them.

Just to be sure DS9 hadn't taken creative license on the Lakota (which would be our T5), I re-watched Paradise Lost tonight. The Lakota is only depicted as using its phaser's against the Defiant. I suppose I would need to scan across the massive fleet battles used in the final Dominon battle's to see if those Excelsior's had indicated anything contrary to ST: VI.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 534
08-27-2010, 01:57 AM
another one i found.. for the luna variants: the sol and polaris both missing shuttle bays i think the sol could benefit best by a luna type shuttle bay, personally
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 535
08-27-2010, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelSilhouette View Post
Also, I'm disappointed to find out that the beams aren't firing from the phaser banks on the top and bottom of the saucer. : /
All my beams came from the phaser banks on the saucer when I fire, it's really cool looking if you load up the ship with the TOS Constitution phasers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 536
08-27-2010, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi'a Meese
http://www.mutara.net/Christies/deta...a/IMG_1723.JPG

The blue details within the ribbed dorsal there? The in-game T3 (and likely the T5 also?) has weapon hard points placed in these spots for the photons. I don't believe them to be weapons mounts on the real model. From a strictly forward view of the real model, that dorsal area is somewhat obscured by the lower saucer sensor array. So I'm suggesting that weapon's hard points don't belong there. The photon tubes are actually those small recessed area's just forward of the Federation pennant. That is where the torpedoes launch from on Sulu's Excelsior during the final battle of Star Trek VI. But the in-game model doesn't appear to use them.
Ah, I see my confusion. Dorsal refers to the back or upper surface of an animal or object, so I was looking on the top deck of the saucer instead of the neck, I'm sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amosov
All my beams came from the phaser banks on the saucer when I fire, it's really cool looking if you load up the ship with the TOS Constitution phasers
Ah! Excellent. Though I feel the dual beam banks should definitely fire from the phaser emitters, too. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 537
08-27-2010, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelSilhouette View Post
Ah, I see my confusion. Dorsal refers to the back or upper surface of an animal or object, so I was looking on the top deck of the saucer instead of the neck, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry for any confusion. Since more contemporary designs just don't bother with the component, that label has fallen into dis-use. I'm accustomed to my stockpile of fan-based starship blueprints. Over time, the generally accepted term for the "neck" between primary and secondary hull of a heavy cruiser configuration was 'dorsal". I honestly don't know what else to call it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 538
08-30-2010, 07:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi'a Meese
I'm sorry for any confusion. Since more contemporary designs just don't bother with the component, that label has fallen into dis-use. I'm accustomed to my stockpile of fan-based starship blueprints. Over time, the generally accepted term for the "neck" between primary and secondary hull of a heavy cruiser configuration was 'dorsal". I honestly don't know what else to call it.
I think "neck" is the standard term for that area. Dorsal = on the top centerline, Ventral = on the bottom centerline.

Aft torpedoes seem to be launching out of the forward launchers instead of from above the ventral cargo/shuttlebay amidships, as shown on this MSD
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 539
08-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amosov
The Excelsior fired torpedoes from the secondary hull in Star Trek VI, however the Enterprise-B's MSD showed torpedo launchers situated in those openings on the neck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I think "neck" is the standard term for that area. Dorsal = on the top centerline, Ventral = on the bottom centerline.

Aft torpedoes seem to be launching out of the forward launchers instead of from above the ventral cargo/shuttlebay amidships, as shown on this MSD
Now I see what Amasov meant. I hadn't seen that Enterprise-B MSD in many years. It suggests that it carries 4 forward torpedo launchers. And 2 (or just 1 maybe) in the aft. That MSD suggests 2 launchers in the forward-neck (like the in-game model) and 2 on the forward secondary hull as shown on the real models. IMO, since we are unlikely to see two photon tubes - let alone 4 - fire simultaneously from the front, those two hardpoints should still be moved down to the secondary hull. Looking over the game model, I see small enough hardpoints to fit those openings.

But that just is my personal aesthetic. Does anyone else concur?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 540
08-30-2010, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I think "neck" is the standard term for that area. Dorsal = on the top centerline, Ventral = on the bottom centerline.

Aft torpedoes seem to be launching out of the forward launchers instead of from above the ventral cargo/shuttlebay amidships, as shown on this MSD
Added

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi'a Meese
Now I see what Amasov meant. I hadn't seen that Enterprise-B MSD in many years. It suggests that it carries 4 forward torpedo launchers. And 2 (or just 1 maybe) in the aft. That MSD suggests 2 launchers in the forward-neck (like the in-game model) and 2 on the forward secondary hull as shown on the real models. IMO, since we are unlikely to see two photon tubes - let alone 4 - fire simultaneously from the front, those two hardpoints should still be moved down to the secondary hull. Looking over the game model, I see small enough hardpoints to fit those openings.

But that just is my personal aesthetic. Does anyone else concur?
Personally I'd like to see the torpedoes launch from random tubes, forward or aft. And when firing HYT or Torpedo Spread, I'd love to see more than just one tube get some play. I'm launching multiple torps, why are they all coming from one tube?

(As an example, the Avenger has 10 forward tubes. 2 actually work, and 4 torpedo tube textures on each side of the saucer. I'd love to see the spreads launch a single torpedo from each tube.)
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