Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-24-2010, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
----------------------

Table of Contents:[/color]
  • Modify Item Menu
    • Overview
    • Researcher Leveling
  • Reclaim Item Menu
    • Overview
    • Reverse Engineering Leveling

----------------------
Thank goodness! This post was so long I almost got lost if not for your table of contents
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-24-2010, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Thank goodness! This post was so long I almost got lost if not for your table of contents
I do that standard with a majority of the proposals I organize. It's easier to start organized than get organized later (like the screenshot thread that became a huge linklist till I trimmed it down.

Some of them can be quite long.

In fact, I'm working on mock-ups for skill trees and variance thresholds for attributes (based on skill or even minigame performance).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-25-2010, 05:02 PM
I love your ideas! I would love the things you have shown to be in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-25-2010, 06:22 PM
Do you think this type of tinkering would be more likely to get in game if the changes were temporary buffs.
Give em a reasonable lifetime, maybe between 1 - 20hrs but have em wear out?

Tie it to a mini-game's results so the duration has to so with your relative success?


I apologize if this is obvious, but I can hardly see those screen mock-ups.
What is the cost of doing this modification, is it anomolies?
What is the risk of doing this modification/tinkering; do you always succeed?
Maybe some of the time nothing happens? Is there a crit failure (boom!) or crit success (extra bonus) possibility?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-25-2010, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Until something like "unique" crafting could be made - this could hold us.

Add minigames and it could be more involving that WoW's disenchanting.
Thoughtful idea!

1) IMO a crafting system similar to that of Pre-NGE SWG or EVE would serve the playerbase the best. gives countless hours for people to: quest for schematics to invent, allow mining operations and collections of resources [poor to rare], allow certain modular item drops used in crafting/reverse engineering to be dropped in STF's, allow players to design the pieces of their starships/weapons/armor/kits/shields/etc.. and lastly the interaction of trading resources/parts between players and Fleets

2) although i dont see much of a crafting system when there is no need to replace. ex. you or a fleet-member learns the whole craft-system and can make anything even to the rare's.
Then Waht??
there is no need to do anything more, it is just limited do-once and your ship is maxed. But if the penalty for being destroyed was to lose a module completely to where you had to buy another piece, say affixed to using ramming speed and auto destruct or catastrophic annihilation, then there would be an economy for crafting. if there was a degradation attached to ship modules the more it is used the more it degrades to failing permanently......using the repair stims works as a short term solution, but a master degrade is hard set and will not last beyond a value of time built into the creation of said module by the crafter.


3) should the crafting system be put into a skill tree similar to charactor progression?? this way you can choose to excel at either: making the parts of a star-ship, making the ship modules or making personal away-team gears??!! this way there isnt a monopoly of what one person can make and charge and should give fleets the ability to grow and make alliances all without having the crafting market sell absurd priced items.

4) Lastly, tieing into #3, would there be a money sink? crafters having to pay to use facilities to craft items, learn expertise, pay a fee to sell goods based on days and such?
Obviously, there would be an accumulation of wealth with crafters adding their fee of labor to the demand and value of which they created. this would leave non-crafters, Possibly, out of latinum to buy the modules they desperately need or wish to attain! even though crafters would buy resources from others at a price, that still marks up the cost of goods, but not trying to monetarily gimp the crafters for doing their jobs either. that is the catch!


does any of this have merit?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-25-2010, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nack
Do you think this type of tinkering would be more likely to get in game if the changes were temporary buffs? Give em a reasonable lifetime, maybe between 1 - 20hrs but have em wear out?
That's a very compelling avenue.

I was thinking of minute gradiations based on performance, i.e. 2.1, 2.2 instead of the base 2.0% for, say criticla.

Balance would be easier if the buffs were temporary - costs could go down too. I like it

Quote:
Tie it to a mini-game's results so the duration has to so with your relative success?
Tie duration to skill stat or tie power to skill stat? Both?

Quote:
I apologize if this is obvious, but I can hardly see those screen mock-ups.
What is the cost of doing this modification, is it anomalies?
Yes, the anomalies I posted under modify are those you'd need to use.

For reclaim, it's the number of anomalies you could potentially "get bacK"

Quote:
What is the risk of doing this modification/tinkering; do you always succeed? Maybe some of the time nothing happens? Is there a crit failure (boom!) or crit success (extra bonus) possibility?
Those are compelling parts of the crafting systems I enjoy.

If you forgo the crafting minigame, make it a small percentage of total failure (i.e. anomalies expended withou attribute gain).
If you do use the crafting minigame, you could be rest assured that you wouldn't lose all the anomalies upon failure.

You're reminding me of my days as a Weapons Dealer in SWG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sithterror View Post
Thoughtful idea!

1) IMO a crafting system similar to that of Pre-NGE SWG or EVE would serve the playerbase the best. gives countless hours for people to: quest for schematics to invent, allow mining operations and collections of resources [poor to rare], allow certain modular item drops used in crafting/reverse engineering to be dropped in STF's, allow players to design the pieces of their starships/weapons/armor/kits/shields/etc.. and lastly the interaction of trading resources/parts between players and Fleets
I'm working on bringing this idea closer in line with SWG. Nack's ideas are one path of doing that.

I'd love to see unique Attributes unlocked for various gear. Maybe a [Rep] attribute on a phaser beam that potentially has a repulsor effect on critical (and deals small but interesting kinetic damage).

Quote:
2) although i dont see much of a crafting system when there is no need to replace. ex. you or a fleet-member learns the whole craft-system and can make anything even to the rare's.
Then Waht??
there is no need to do anything more, it is just limited do-once and your ship is maxed. But if the penalty for being destroyed was to lose a module completely to where you had to buy another piece, say affixed to using ramming speed and auto destruct or catastrophic annihilation, then there would be an economy for crafting. if there was a degradation attached to ship modules the more it is used the more it degrades to failing permanently......using the repair stims works as a short term solution, but a master degrade is hard set and will not last beyond a value of time built into the creation of said module by the crafter.
I doubt full base item loss would be popular. However, anomaly/mats loss for failure is one option Nack suggested. I like it and had assumed there'd be more risk but also reward in a new crafting system.

Quote:
3) should the crafting system be put into a skill tree similar to charactor progression?? this way you can choose to excel at either: making the parts of a star-ship, making the ship modules or making personal away-team gears??!! this way there isnt a monopoly of what one person can make and charge and should give fleets the ability to grow and make alliances all without having the crafting market sell absurd priced items.
I'd think that a skill tree would be best - hence the Researcher levels in the bottom right of the Modify Screen.

Have ability sets and attribute slots at different levels of proficiency. Also, let some of the work at Memory Alpha count toward your levels. No sense punishing those who use the old starter system with Romaine.

Quote:
4) Lastly, tieing into #3, would there be a money sink? crafters having to pay to use facilities to craft items, learn expertise, pay a fee to sell goods based on days and such?
Obviously, there would be an accumulation of wealth with crafters adding their fee of labor to the demand and value of which they created. this would leave non-crafters, Possibly, out of latinum to buy the modules they desperately need or wish to attain! even though crafters would buy resources from others at a price, that still marks up the cost of goods, but not trying to monetarily gimp the crafters for doing their jobs either. that is the catch!
That's a possibility. I remember SWG having money sinks from harvesters, item creation, schematic manufacturing, etc. However, it shouldn't be so high as to discourage players from leveling the skills while going up in level.

Quote:
does any of this have merit?
I like your ideas and will be making another pass to modify the OP (after homework is done for tonight). You certainly don't need me to validate your contributions.

Let's see what other players say but I'll probably incorporate that with Nack's idea (I'll cite each of you as a contributor to those parts).

--------------

As a heads up, I'm working on improving the existing mock-ups to be clearer (i.e. having a base item in the modify slot, more directions) and adding a hypothetical skill chart and item gradient (based on level stats and minigame performance).

I'm still not sure if temporary or permanent buffs would be preferred by everyone.

What does the rest of the community say?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-25-2010, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Until something like "unique" crafting could be made - this could hold us.

Add minigames and it could be more involving that WoW's disenchanting.
So why ask for a temp solution though Darren? Wouldnt be better to just get the wanted system in place instead of "settling" for something that will "hold us"? That said, sometime sooner or later, wouldnt it be better if they took the better lot of a season and focused soley on crafting, resource gathering, experimentation, resource location,research and all that stuff, I think it a better idea to go that route than to have to keep coming back every other month because people arent satisfied.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
06-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguila432 View Post
So why ask for a temp solution though Darren? Wouldnt be better to just get the wanted system in place instead of "settling" for something that will "hold us"? That said, sometime sooner or later if they took the better lot of a season and focused soley on crafting, resource gathering, experimentation, resource location,research and all that stuff, I think it a better idea to go that route than to have to keep coming back every other month because people arent satisfied.
Part of my rationale there was to get the system in place first then go more complex from there. The base mock-ups need a little more polish but the general feedback is encouraging me to go back and add the elements I hoped (more like SWG's unqiue feel to items, rather than a rote recipe list - like WoW).

I'm going back and retooling it to be more audacious but have some of the framework I already laid-out.

Everyone seems to be leaning toward a SWG style - even me.

So, I'm working on stuff to pad it out and incorporate feedback from players like you.

I'd think crafting and resource gathering changes would be great to implement before Starbases on the time-table.

Make the gathering and construction of items more interesting before working on the Starbases and other construction projects, for example.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-25-2010, 07:45 PM
Ignore my post, other than this:

GREAT JOB!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
06-25-2010, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adigregorio View Post
Ignore my post, other than this:

GREAT JOB!
I'm making another pass and adding more features.

Polish what's there, explain where necessary, and add features like skill trees and item variance (so it's not just some set recipe - it's a full-on experiment with levels of success or failure).

The great part is that I already have PSD files saved with the GUI layouts from previous proposals. This makes creating new menus quite simple.
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