Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
06-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Comics
The Galaxy-X is restricted to Mk VIII weapons and it has the speed and turning of a tier 4 ship. Why would anyone take that instead of another tier 5 cruiser? So it has a cloaking device, so what? It's not like it has battle cloak or anything. It shows up, it fails to hurt you, you blow it the hell up before it gets away.

Didn't anyone notice the far more interesting news for Klingons?



My bet: Stasis Weapons from the Animated Series, a sustained and very energy-heavy multi-target ship hold.

Anyone else have any new Klingon-specific powers they would like to see? Because they're coming!
The devs said much, but did little. They lost my trust entirely.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
06-29-2010, 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Comics
The Galaxy-X is restricted to Mk VIII weapons
This is wrong. It is restricted to the normal weapon slots of a Galaxy class ship, e.g. it is missing one aft weapon slot compared to a tier 5 cruiser.

But the type of equipment you can use is only limited by your own rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
06-29-2010, 09:06 AM
The dev post read:

"It has Tier 4 weapon slots and the speed and turn rate of a Exploration Cruiser."

So that means it has fewer slots, not lower Mk weapons? Fair enough. I'm still not worried. That's lower DPS to make up for the cloak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
06-29-2010, 10:41 AM
I've been up against them a number of times now, they're no more (or less) dangerous than any other Fed out there. Flown well it can be hard to take down, flown normally, well, they go *pop* just like anybody else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
06-30-2010, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Ok, let me make sure I'm caught up on this...

So the problem isn't that the system is broken because Klingon faction have no PvE or that the majority of the support is for the Federation side, it's that we have the audacity to expect the Klingon faction to be equal to the Federation side in content and support? I didn't realize that this game was originally written as a Federation game and we should be appreciative of the scraps that were thrown our way since they really shouldn't have to do that even. I stand corrected then.
As well you should since you missed my point.... which was.. to put it bluntly: you complain about Fed players QQing to get their way when Fed players learned by watching KDF players and their incessant QQing about PvE content that they weren't meant to have. Do I think there should be PvE for klingons? sure... I also think there should be Ferengi, Romulan, Cardassian playable factions. KDF players set the tone and set it early. Others have learned that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Again... just in case you missed. Fed players qqing about cloaks learned by watching KDF players qqing about PvE content.[/point]
Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Personally, I thought the vision of the Klingon side was that they were put in as a PvP faction because Cryptic could get say they have PvP, without actually incorporating it correcting since that would cost extra time and resources. Now, they didn't understand how to implement it, but like any good marketing tool, they knew it had to be shoehorned in there somehow and this was what we got. Long story short, since they didn't want to do it right, they put it in so Klingon players could be the equivelant of "Player controlled NPC Enemies" providing opposition for Federation players. Basically, we are paying Cryptic to allow us to be the game content for Federation players benefit, not actually here for our enjoyment. Again, I stand corrected.
on this we might agree, if I understand you correctly (sarcasm not withstanding). I think KDF was meant as pure PvP a la Guild Wars. Problem is players wanted KDF as playable faction (read PvE content). Dont get me wrong... perfectly valid viewpoint. The problem I saw was KDF players wanted PvE they wanted it complete. and they wanted it yesterday. Cryptic caved and this is what you got.
Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Perhaps so. However, that does not negate the fact that the Federation, from a game design not Star Trek Lore view, should not have cloak. This is not Counterstrike where everyone is the same with only a different skin. There should be different reasons to play each faction.
on this we can agree... however, I am indifferent as to whether Feds get cloaks. Having played KDF (however briefly), a cloak (and its bonus), dual cannons, and the turning rate to keep arc is more than the 8% loss in hull.. If you would like to keep cloaks away from the Feds... I'm ok with that.... however, cloak detection needs a DEVpass and power levels while cloaked need a look/see. Having played both there is a distinct advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
True, however do you truly believe that Cryptic or their federation player masters would actually allow a klingon ship to fire from cloak?! Is that why you brought this up? To say that the Galaxy X is canon and should be allowed and that Chang is canon and maybe it will be allowed? Perhaps so. Personally, I don't think it will ever happen, but who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.
I think if they did they would (as suggested) give stealth detection, power levels a look/see. Chang didn't have ANY shields and he only fired torps and he didn't one-shot the Enterprise. Remember, supposedly Cloaks suck the life out of your power l;evels a la Full Impulse. So yea.. if they did that then sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Unfortunately, even if they do, I'll consider it another mistake. I'm not looking at the decisions from a lore or a "fair" view, but from a business model and game design view. It would rock if the Klingons could fire from cloak. However, it would be unfairly powerful and you don't offset one poor choice with an equally unfairly powerful poor choice for the other side.
thats the thing.. you claim to argue from a 'business model'... If the bulk of there player base is Fed... then there there go. I dont know what those numbers are so I have to leave it Cryptic to make those calls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Possible and probably a good idea. Personally, I think they need to scrap a majority of the game and take alot of it back to the drawing board. This IP deserves a better effort and I honestly would like to see them do better. Surprisingly, I'm still here with the faith and hope that Cryptic will take some of the ideas they see, correct some of the mistakes they've made and actually build the game that most people want to play, not the haphazard game we currently have. I bought the lifetime sub for that reason and hope to see it pan out. If it doesn't, well, I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on.
I as well. Like I stated earlier, I have my ideas on the missions I wanna see and factions I'd like to play. I bought the LTS because I they'll get it here eventually... (note to Cryptic: Ferengi Faction and ship capturing... ftw!! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Well, the Hefner robe might be a great addition, but can't quite imagine adding it to my Klingon. Maybe a Ferengi, but that wouldn't help the Klingon side.
Its a running joke in our fleet [Fleet 1580]. Our Fleet Admiral, upon starting the kdf version fleet [House of J'ak], collected an all Orion Female crew. He stated that h edressed them as modestly as the tailor would let him and that all he needed was the Hefner bathrobe. He then promptly made em all nuns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
]
I'm happy you enjoy the K't'inga and perhaps you understand why we want more than just to be told, "Ah, here's some scraps. Be happy with them, we didn't even have to give you those." We want to enjoy the game to the same level that someone that loves the Federation side enjoys it. I play a Fed character and enjoy that side usually. I see quest arcs and stories and interaction that simply does not exist on the Klingon side and I don't think it is too much to ask for it to.
I dont think it is too much to ask for either but some your KDF bretheren aren't so patient and are definitely, very vocal. Wanting something is not unreasonable. I think the impatient timetable for which KDF players desired this was unreasonable. It is this very impatient and vocal behavior (and Cryptics response to it) that is driving the Fed Cloak issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
If Cryptic designed the game, and it's within their right to do so, as a Federation game w/ Klingon PvP only thrown in, then at least have them be honest with that decision. If they want that then they need to come out and say, "Klingons, we understand you want a story and a purpose beyond being a PvP opposition to the real game, but it's not how we designed it and we won't be doing that."
on this we can agree. I would add... I do not have the forum posts, but Cryptic did start out this way but clearly they abandoned that position and they did it early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japax
Prime example is LoTRO. If I wanted to play an Orc over there to the same level I play a human, I can't. However, the difference is that Turbine has been very upfront that the Monster Play is simply to shoehorn an aspect of PvP into a game that really, IMHO, doesn't need it but simply because it is popular, it was added. No one complains much because they KNOW that the monster side won't ever have a full PvE existance. However here, Cryptic tries to say that the Klingon faction (and possibly Romulan future one) are just as important, but then when it comes down to their actions, they aren't. They say one thing and do another which makes me wonder about their intentions.
Like I stated earliler... I think that was the original intent on KDF. I think Cryptic underestimated the popularity of KDF. And have subsequently fumbled the ball in deploying what passes for PvE. I think if they had stayed firm and waited to deploy KDF as a developed faction instead of PvP only... it would have faired better. Yes the vocal types would hav ebeen vocal but it is my experience that the really vocal types are never satisfied (just an opinion).

I apologize for the nested and lengthy post... I'm not a fan doing this. I'll still read any responses but I doubt I will respond any further comments.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
06-30-2010, 10:14 AM
I don't agree with any fed ships being able to cloak purely because klingon ships having cloaks as a unique ability is one of the main reason why players start klingon chars.

IF fed ships have cloaking ability what will be the point in playing an underdeveloped class in this game. At least don't give cloaks until game content is balanced for all factions with equal numbers of areas/storyline missions to keep players interested.

I think fed ships having cloaks before content is balanced between factions could damage in game pvp due to lack of other faction players to pvp against..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
06-30-2010, 12:34 PM
@TaiShoJoJo

When you say you aren't a fan of Nested replies, that did remind me that they are generally seen as negative. For that I do apologize. I'm the opposite. I generally see them as more efficient and easier to read because they break up each facet of a post that can easily cover many many pieces. My intention wasn't to be rude, but I do forget that others may see that style of response as such.

Now, on to the other things. I think we will have to "agree to disagree" based on some of your stance. I think my initial irritation was the idea that all of this complaining isn't because there is something to complain about, but because we are expecting too much. After reading back, I think that pushed a button and again, I apologize for the tone. Whether we agree or not, it wasn't called for and I (honestly this time... ) stand corrected. We still disagree, but that's ok.

Lastly, I think we can agree that whether Cryptic's intentions for the Klingon faction was one way or another, it's not succeeding. As my example showed, if they were trying to emulate the "monster play" style of LoTRO, then they should have been clear about it and stuck to their guns as to it's purpose. I'm sure there are people who complain they can't take their Orc warrior through the town of Bree skewering the Free People, but that isn't the design that Turbine set down and they aren't going to adjust.

So, if the problem is that Cryptic has created this mess by trying to be too accomadating (and we can ALL agree that they do this by trying to please everyone all the time) then they need to at least come down and say that. However, I don't ever remember STO being set forth as a "Federation primarily" game w/ "Monster Klingon PvP" in the description anywhere. If that was done at some point, then I stand corrected and will step back from my desires to see the Klingons fleshed out. I'm not one to argue for the moon when it's clearly not in the cards. However, if they did promise a Klingon faction and then did a haphazard job, then I'm happy to call a spade a spade and let them know my disappointment.

Anyhow, thanks for your input. Agreed or not, it was insightful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
06-30-2010, 07:57 PM
Misleading topic based on FUD. The Galaxy X has several disadvantages to other Federation ships at T5, never mind compared to KDF ships. I hardly think the phaser lance, sharing a cool down with Beam Overload as it does, makes up for the lower damage output offered. Three rear weapons, one less tactical slot and the inherent slower turning of the T4 Galaxy class cruiser. How is this a threat to any skilled KDF player? One of the most annoying tactics I've had to face in my cruiser is when ships try to stick to the rear shield facing. This ship alone will make that happen even more.

Do I think more ships should get cloak on the Federation side? I'm not sure, a T5 Defiant with it would have to be done very carefully to avoid being overpowered but no cruiser is going to kill a skilled player even with a cloak damage bonus, they don't have the burst DPS to do it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
07-03-2010, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Raider View Post
As i warned about a month ago it appears Cryptic will be offering the Federation Galaxy X Cloaked Ship in the C-Store soon.
And.........
They will be introducing Federation Cloaking to non C-Store ships to in STO.
Every Starfleet player will have the opportunity to cloak.......

The proof: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=2784082
next will feds get battlecloak, universal stations, and more river from klingon tears! I warn you all!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
07-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle-Phoenix View Post
next will feds get battlecloak, universal stations, and more river from klingon tears! I warn you all!
Symmetric games are very little fun, if those happen I think I might hang it up on this game, and I know a lot of people who feel the same way unfortunately about those inclusions to the fed side.

Cryptic started out trying to get it right, but instead of trying to fix the problem of Federation players generally being morons against their Klingon counterparts in pugs, they give them everything that makes the Klingons unique and nothing that helps the Federation....
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