Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
06-27-2010, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoreisenhorn
Problem is these sorts of things need to be taken with a grain of salt by the devs/GMs, since the vast majority of the time the "explot" is just lag, cheesing a certain ability combo, or any other multitude of what ifs and circumstance.
Lag is a tremendous culprit in perceived shenanigans, poltergeistery, and suchlike.

It may not even be your lag necessarily...... but its out there.... stalking us.....

Hey. Its not paranoia if its really out to get you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
06-27-2010, 10:42 PM
True, it can be misconstrued as an illusion due to lag. However, it's not exclusive when others witness the same events.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
06-27-2010, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noyjitat View Post
Planetside was ravaged by hackers for quite awhile. But not your common hackers.. These guys made and sold trainers on different websites that could do things like pull everyone to your screen where you could shoot them but they couldn't fight back. It was all client side based hacks. I imagine those folks are getting kinda bored and you might be seeing some of the same losers here now.

They have pretty much pushed away alot of community from the game and soe pushed even more away by not dealing with the problem.. although that isn't the first bad thing soe has done and continues to do in planetside. Still hoping someone in soe will care enough to save that game and hopefully the same thing won't happen here with this being a different company than soe.
Client Side Hit Detection. That's the issue here- your client says "i hit this guy for X damage" and does all the range calculations itself.

Both the server and target can THINK that you dodged behind a tree, but if YOUR client says you hit him with a sniper bullet, the CSHD means that he takes the damage.

Most MMOs don't do this- BECAUSE of the hacking BS. But it allows larger servers and larger populations, and larger, better fights. Downside is it's hackable.

I know the video you're talking about- first it was a clientside hack to chance the coordinates to the player to WAY up high and disable falling. Next, it changes the coordinates for EVERYONE ELSE to near the player. They they just get a big gun and fire away, getting kills on people across the map. Lame.

Other have been invincible tanks... not sure how THAT gets pulled off, though. It's always VEHICLES that are invincible though, so must be something in the vehicle code.

STO thought uses purely server side. For better and worse (worse being the constant fighting inside of shoeboxes.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
06-28-2010, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Which means they designed that particular function that way and the system designer will only review that if enough complaints are made.



I doubt you've worked in software development - bugs take time. We know developers (especially the systems designers) play the game.

snix (who did the 1.2 power changes) was tweaking the powers during the day and playing at night with us - so was zero and a few other devs and GMs. snix played PvP matches till 10-11pm PDT and then would go to work the next day.

So, to say the devs don't play the game is just hyperbole and exaggeration. You're frustrated and I'm frustrated but let's not lose sight of the facts.

The developers do play. I suggest hopping on Tribble to get their ear faster during working hours.


There is some quality control. I've heard horror stories that were resolved before they hit Tribble.

Again, I suspect you've never worked in software development or you'd know how difficult it is to track bugs in a project as big as STO.

For a real world example, Microsoft has more money that some industries put together. Hundreds of testeers, lots of Q/A teams, etc.

They recently (as in 2010) fixed a 17 year-old bug in their Windows Operating System.

This bug dated back to Windows 3.1 for Workgroups and was even in Windows 7 by all accounts.
I'd just like to correct you there.

Poorly designed software has bugs.

Windows (and Microsoft products as a broad rule) are poorly designed products with exceptional branding and mainstream competitors which are just ever-so-slightly inferior.

I am a believer in the Agile "fad".

But if you practice the principles of sound design, unit test and acceptance test properly, you will end up with code that satisfies the stakeholder at the end of every release cycle.

If you mean that unintentional side effects are inevitable, especially as system complexity rises or involves (or relies upon) human input, then of course that is true. But encapsulation limits the potential impact in terms of cost of correction. Immensely complex systems, if compartmentalized, can have their behavior adjusted rapidly and accurately.

In short, we programmers are not shamans or wizards pulling intangible strings to conjure and bind programs from some Lovecraft-esque alternate dimension. We are translators, providing a list of instructions, which processors (barring certain relatively rare physical failures) follow unerringly.

You will have bugless software products when consumers begin to expect bugless products.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
06-28-2010, 01:45 AM
It was probably a bug that he is exploiting.

There's also a bug that if the enemy is on the other side of the asteroid, and you stay out of weapons range long enough, red alert cancels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I absolutely H-A-T-E the PvP in STO because of the blatant cheating.

PLASMA BURN 3 is a perfect example. The klingons sit on the respawn point and burn your ship shields and hull in one second. Then BOOM! There is no way possible that any weapon does that amount of damage [50K points] unless it has been juiced up.

Then there is another HACK called Havoc where cheaters load cannons in the aft. Then they have auto fire. Must I go on and on?

Then there is the ground PvP where they have kit stacking and juiced up Tetyron Sniper Rifles that do 3K damage per shot. I know the DEVS know about this problem...

Frankly the cheating is so awful that it has to be done by one or more DEVS who have gone rogue.

Just so you guys know I am a paying customer who simply wants a fair fight in PvP. When paying customers get tired of unfair PvP they go elsewhere to spend thier dollars. Even better is when the paying customers get hacked off enough they set out for revenge like getting thier multi billionaire friends to buy the game and put the cheated customer in charge so he/she can FIRE the DEVS ALL OF THEM!

If I a lowly customer can find these hacks and exploits the DEVS can too. Disney does a wonderful job on Pirates of the Caribean online game of eliminating cheaters and they have DEVS on line all the time to immediately adress players concerns and reports of cheating. So now the question becomes when does it become financially viable to stop the cheaters before you lose your job because you allowed your customer base to become too frustrated? What is it going to take for the DEVS to take the paying customers complaints seriously? If you are a DEV and you want to clean up the game PM me [ Grimsey@Arnthebard ] and I will gladly help you by hunting out these cheaters and immediately reporting them to you so you can do an immediate investigation and take the appropiate action(s).


Here is a new idea for the powers that be at Cryptic's Customer Service Department.... issue a post saying TOS violations will now result in the permenant banning of the user's credit card(s) after a early termination of service fee of $500.00 is charged to the card. Then delete the cheating players accounts. I promise you that would slow down the cheaters with great efficiency. Money is power....greedy CEOs and rogue DEVS seem to forget that customers can go elsewhere. Make the game fair that is all we the paying customers ask of you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-15-2010, 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnthebard View Post
multi billionaire friends
I'm actually working on my third billion even as we speak. I gave up on the first two.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-15-2010, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnthebard View Post
I absolutely H-A-T-E the PvP in STO because of the blatant cheating.

PLASMA BURN 3 is a perfect example. The klingons sit on the respawn point and burn your ship shields and hull in one second. Then BOOM! There is no way possible that any weapon does that amount of damage [50K points] unless it has been juiced up.

Then there is another HACK called Havoc where cheaters load cannons in the aft. Then they have auto fire. Must I go on and on?

Then there is the ground PvP where they have kit stacking and juiced up Tetyron Sniper Rifles that do 3K damage per shot. I know the DEVS know about this problem...

Frankly the cheating is so awful that it has to be done by one or more DEVS who have gone rogue.

Just so you guys know I am a paying customer who simply wants a fair fight in PvP. When paying customers get tired of unfair PvP they go elsewhere to spend thier dollars. Even better is when the paying customers get hacked off enough they set out for revenge like getting thier multi billionaire friends to buy the game and put the cheated customer in charge so he/she can FIRE the DEVS ALL OF THEM!

If I a lowly customer can find these hacks and exploits the DEVS can too. Disney does a wonderful job on Pirates of the Caribean online game of eliminating cheaters and they have DEVS on line all the time to immediately adress players concerns and reports of cheating. So now the question becomes when does it become financially viable to stop the cheaters before you lose your job because you allowed your customer base to become too frustrated? What is it going to take for the DEVS to take the paying customers complaints seriously? If you are a DEV and you want to clean up the game PM me [ Grimsey@Arnthebard ] and I will gladly help you by hunting out these cheaters and immediately reporting them to you so you can do an immediate investigation and take the appropiate action(s).


Here is a new idea for the powers that be at Cryptic's Customer Service Department.... issue a post saying TOS violations will now result in the permenant banning of the user's credit card(s) after a early termination of service fee of $500.00 is charged to the card. Then delete the cheating players accounts. I promise you that would slow down the cheaters with great efficiency. Money is power....greedy CEOs and rogue DEVS seem to forget that customers can go elsewhere. Make the game fair that is all we the paying customers ask of you.
oh my you must be very unlucky .. either that or i must be very lucky as iv never came across anyone i could say ... omg he cheats.
& to an earlier post of just report the cheaters ... lolz the way some people go on the devs would be flooded by cheat reports.
There would never be any new content or they would need to hire like 700 new devs just to sort through those complaints.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-15-2010, 07:13 AM
Golden rule of a PvP'r:


- if you got Pwnd....they musta' cheated. -



.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-15-2010, 08:01 AM
Since head start I have seen many exploits in PVP, from people hiding in Rocks to speed stacking.
Yet I have never seen any hacks or been the victim of one.

I do at least 3-8 PvP matches a day. Maybe I'm just lucky.
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