Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
06-29-2010, 10:50 PM
Very impressive guys, great stuff But What about Vice Fleet Admiral? (I've seen it but not even sure if it's a cannon rank)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
06-29-2010, 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrT043
Instead of Rear Admiral, Lower Half, why not Commodore? I know it might require some adjustment to what's already in game, but the upper half/lower half terminology feels.... ungainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sltdg View Post
Agreed on the commodore idea. After all, TOS had several Commodores, so they are Canonical.
Been begging for Commodore for ages, now. I absolutely cannot stand every single farging NPC referring to me by my full rank title.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not have the NPCs saying stupid things like "Hello there, Rear Admiral (Upper Half) Dragon, we have much to talk about." In conversation, a LTJG and LT are both "Lieutenant", a LCDR (Lieutenant Commander) and CDR are "Commander", all grades of Admiral (except the older Commodore grade) are "Admiral" and all grades of General (With an exception provided for Brigadier General which, depending on the nation can simply be "Brigadier") are "General".

The only NPCs in game who should ever be referring to our full rank are the ESD character you visit for your rank-up micro-ceremony and the Fleet Admiral in a formal situation. In all other situations, we should be addressed by Admiral (or Commander in the case of LCDR). The only exception to the previous rules would be other Admirals or non-Starfleet NPCs that might be classified as friends who would have the freedom to address you by your first name.

In regards to "Fleet Admiral" being a final rank, I feel I must express a bit of negativity towards this decision. I've been defending the fact that we can become Admirals by saying that the Federation and Starfleet are not only fighting a war on two fronts across multiple galactic quadrants, but having to defend the member systems from upstarts like the Unikuian, Vito-D, Romulan, Hirogen, etc and therefore have to expand their forces and command base as rapidly as possible. However, there really shouldn't be more than a handful of Fleet Admirals; and there are already at least four in game. Their names escape me at the moment, but they are the CO of ESD (Completely wrong position for his grade. It's like having a MIT graduate working phone tech support. The CO of a space station really shouldn't be higher than Rear Admiral; Vice Admiral at most), the Fleet Admiral that gives Fleet Actions, and two who contact me during star cluster runs. (A male pig alien.. beardy.. thing, and a female whose race escapes me.) This is evidenced by their 5 boxed pips. (1 RDML, 2 RADM, 3 VADM, 4 ADM, 5 FADM).

As a suggestion, a better ranking system would be:


  • ENS (1 - 5)

  • LT (5 - 10)

  • LCDR (11 - 20)

  • CDR (21 - 30)

  • CPT (31 - 40)

  • CDRE (Commodore) (41 - 50)

  • RADM (Rear Admiral) (51 - 60)

  • VADM (Vice Admiral) (61 - 70)

  • ADM (Admiral) (71 - ??) (If necessary)



This would satisfy many of our desires to have the CDRE rank (and title), give us a full 10 bars through which to work to our next level (advancing at the normal pace instead of what feels like an accelerated pace), and give us a better reason to still be in command of a ship at a grade higher than CPT. (Besides, the only reason the USN replaced CDRE with RDML was because some of the more vain / shallow CDREs were whinging about wanting to be called "Admiral" instead of "Commodore". :p )

Though, as I think of it, I feel it would be more appropriate to lengthen the time it takes to move from one flag rank to the next. (41 - 55, 56 - 70, 71 - 90, 91 - ??) This would allow the level cap to be raised when appropriate without running out of grades to assign. Otherwise we may run into the embarrassing situation of players reaching the rank of 120 Secretary of Starfleet followed by 130 Speaker of the House, and 150 President of the United Federation of Planets... (Hyperbole)


=edit=

In regards to Klingon ranks, there is a certain ambiguity created in the canon. Sometimes we see Generals in command of Imperial Klingon Vessels, while other times we see Admirals. I have never seen an official ranking structure created for the Klingons, memory alpha even mentions this. CBS / Viacomm apparently never felt Klingons were important enough to have a set ranking system, rank insignias, uniform, etc. This allows licensees a great deal of lee-way with the Klingon Empire while simultaneously dooming them to guess and hope the fans don't get angry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
06-29-2010, 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi'a Meese
While it's likely simpler to just stick to U.S. miliitary rank system, that just doesn't, IMO, reflect the spirit of the overall I.P. I'm heartened by the number of fellow players who share this opinion.

For those who aren't familiar with this ongoing debate, the first time the rank of Commodore was used was in TOS, "The Doomdsday Machine". The rank in question was held by Matthew Decker. Commanding officer of the U.S.S. Constellation.

It should be noted that:
  • There was no indication as to why he held the rank. As it was never stated.
  • Decker commanded a starship equal to that of the Enterprise (Constellation).
  • He only commanded a single ship; with no indication either way that he could summon other starships.
  • There was no indication of a war or not; with the exception of the threat posed by the alien doomsday weapon. Yet Decker's rank still didn't allow him to counter Kirk's command authority over his own ship (Enterprise).

Was the rank continued beyond that single instance? Some say yes. Others say no. It's an old debate. From as far back as before the first Star Trek computer games. Yet there is no real evidence either way. It is the desire and the interests of the fans of the I.P. over the years who have continued to speculate. And now this speculation continues into STO.
You're correct, but there have been more Commodores than that.

Commodore Barstow (The Alternative Factor)
Commodore Decker (The Doomsday Machine)
Commodore Enwright (The Ultimate Computer)
Commodore Wesley (The Ultimate Computer - note he commanded the squadron that attacked the M5)
Commodore Mendez (The Menagerie)
Commodore Stocker (The Deadly Years)
Commodore Stone (Court Martial)
Commodore Travers (Arena)

Commodore Probert was mentioned in the Motion Picture in background radio chatter at Epsilon Station.

Memory Alpha lists Enterprise's Admiral Forrest as a Commodore, but I remember him as an Admiral.

In any case, Commodore was still in use as late as the Motion Picture, and there has been no mention anywhere regarding the rank being replaced by Rear Admiral Lower Half. The only reason people are saying that is because that's how the current US Navy is set up. As I say, this is Starfleet, and need not follow the same pattern as the US Navy.

Either way, it's just a title. It doesn't affect gameplay, so let us use whichever we prefer. The abilities are identical whichever we choose.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
06-29-2010, 11:18 PM
yup. as i said, commodore would be more "trekkie" imo, but if cryptic can make RAL and RAU sound fitting, im for it.

[i just reeeelly hope i can start upgrading my captain skills again. all these 0s across the bored are killing me!!! {at least there are lots of 9s to make up for them tho}] :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
06-29-2010, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace-Dreadnought View Post
yup. as i said, commodore would be more "trekkie" imo, but if cryptic can make RAL and RAU sound fitting, im for it.

[i just reeeelly hope i can start upgrading my captain skills again. all these 0s across the bored are killing me!!! {at least there are lots of 9s to make up for them tho}] :p
Funny enough, the official abbreviations are RDML (Rear Admiral (Lower Half)) and RADM (Rear Admiral (Upper Half)).

</Pedantic>

:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
06-29-2010, 11:59 PM
Frankly I could care less how you call them.
Just make fricken sure that you´re not leveled through it all in about a week.

Make the need to run explo missions or sector battles mandatory to even approach the amount of skillpoints needed for a new rank.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
06-30-2010, 12:02 AM
Dahar master sounds bad'ass.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
06-30-2010, 12:40 AM
Really, really, really want Commodore to replace the current RA lower half. Come on Cryptic, just do it!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
06-30-2010, 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovereign View Post
Rear Admiral lower/upper still sounds dumb. And I can't get over how many jokes I can make about Rear being in the name.
As I said in another thread.

I'd really like to see something OTHER than Rear Admiral Lower/Upper. Tis a silly title name.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelSilhouette View Post
In regards to Klingon ranks, there is a certain ambiguity created in the canon. Sometimes we see Generals in command of Imperial Klingon Vessels, while other times we see Admirals. I have never seen an official ranking structure created for the Klingons, memory alpha even mentions this. CBS / Viacomm apparently never felt Klingons were important enough to have a set ranking system, rank insignias, uniform, etc. This allows licensees a great deal of lee-way with the Klingon Empire while simultaneously dooming them to guess and hope the fans don't get angry.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_ranks

Its there if you look hard enough.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
06-30-2010, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
[*] I'd really much rather ranks were separated from levels. Peregrine_Falcon has an excellent example/write-up here that I'd fully endorse!
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...00#post2769800
.

Thanks for listening. Proceed to do what thou will...
I heartily agree with this, great idea.

Its been said before but I'm gonna say it again - there are far too many high ranking officers in STO, what organisation is going to have more Admirals than Captains? It just doesn't work, the higher up the rank structure you go, the rarer it should be to see that rank given out.
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