Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 651
02-14-2011, 01:17 AM
Well If they could seprate rank and skill would seem to give a balance. Basiclly give the rank as a title not a level. And allow ranks to be obtain through time an promtion points. While Giving each rank a different level of diffcult. Basicly like actual military each rank would only be given each rank what they require. However only a few players which to have this level of diffculty. But removing ranks would defeat purpose. I say a few ranks should be add. I.E.

Officer candidate: School, They already have this I know bare with me.
Ensign: Basic missions, Low equiment limited officers.
Lt. Junior grade: Should have been keeped. War, New science development (I'll explain)
Lt.: Same as Junior grade.
Lt commander: Sabotage, spy, recon,
Commander: New ship inventory access. Deep space wars
Captian: Fleet creation, Open up Fleet wars between Klingon an federation players.
Admirals all ranks below Fleet: Heavy front line wars, Access to secret tech
Fleet Admiral: Only one player may hold this rank and can be replaced by another player. Max holding time 7days. While Fleet Admiral your name is on the website if retired from postion your name goes in a hall of fame.


New science dev would be nice to actually modify the weapons even after they have been created. Basicly increasing weapons fire power or special effects. Based on level of science skill and Items.
Secret tech is new weapons, shields, I.E. created by Federation. Basicly ultra rare items.

But thats me. Each person to the're own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 652
02-14-2011, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Except that not spending your points doesn't prevent leveling up. Your skills would stay the same, and you wouldn't have access to higher level equipment, but your enemies and your rank would still increase.
Rank doesn't increase - level does. I've got a character at 'Lt. Commander 14' - enemies have scaled up to match (making combat pretty hairy, I might add!), and I'm receiving dropped gear at 'Commander' rank, which I can't use. But I'm still referred to as 'Lt. Cmdr.' in NPC dialogue, and with the appropriate pips displayed in the HUD.

So yeah - there's a problem either way:

- Turn off levelling/ranking up, and you won't be able to access ships/gear/missions assigned to higher levels (remember that some missions are only granted upon hitting a certain level).

- Simply avoiding spending points means you still level up, so enemies become tougher (but you don't!), and you get higher level 'loot' dropped... ...which is bound to rank, so you can't use it. As are ships and other level-related perks.


So it's either a choice of cutting yourself off from EVERYTHING available at higher levels including missions, or being able to do higher-level missions, but at an increasing handicap difficulty-wise.


That's why I'm adamant that the best move would be to add a 'beats-everything' wildcard to 'serious' titles such as the rank ones (so no 'Moist' or 'Torpedo Target'...), so that, when applied, they supercede other wildcards, and alter HUD pips, NPC dialogue, the 'My Characters' page, and everywhere else you see your character's rank. If players need to ascertain your current skill level, then that's exactly what they look at - your level NUMBER, not cosmetic rank.

As for 'joke' titles like 'Punching Bag', these stay the same, so the current wildcards take effect, reading your current level number and 'assuming' your rank based on the current defaults.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 653
02-14-2011, 11:01 AM
In my mind, gaining any rank beyond "Captain" should've been an extremely difficult thing to do, and only be possible by accomplishing certain things within the game. The same goes, for how ships are assigned. Let me explain my idea below:

I would much rather see the full line-up of ranks in the game, and do away with the entire notion of "levels". And instead of having "level 1-10 = Lieutenant", maybe make it so that you have to spend x amount of skill-points (and/or Starfleet Merits), to go from Lieutenant to Lt. Commander. Same for every rank following of course. The notion of having things like "Lieutenant Grade 5" or "Rear Admiral Grade 3" is ridiculous and inconsistent with both Star Trek and established naval traditions.

Cadet = Tutorial
Ensign = 500 Skill-points spent
Lieutenant JG = 1000 Skill-points spent
Lieutenant = 2000 Skill-points spent
Lt. Commander = 5000 Skill-points spent
Commander = 12500 Skill-points spent
Captain = 30000 Skill-points spent

In order to rank up beyond Captain, the player would need to accomplish certain objectives within the game, such as completing important storylines, exploring new worlds and completing patrol missions. Ship "tiers" would be separated from the current structure, and a player can be assigned any ship from any "tier" depending on the performance during missions. Since the game currently tracks the amount of time spent on any given mission, the quicker you can finish a mission (solo), the more likely it is that Starfleet would award you with a better ship.

In the abscence of being assigned a new ship class by Starfleet, the player can requisite a new ship by paying "Starfleet Merits" in addition to scaling "Marks of ..." currency which the player earns through Exploration.

In conclusion: The game should've always been limited to the rank of "Captain" as the maximum rank a player can achieve, while the Admiralty ranks are special and only obtainable by completion of certain criteria. An additional rank of "Admiral of the Fleet" should be obtainable by being an active player, and within a certain limit of perhaps (0.5% - 0.05%) of the total player base for any given month. "Admirals of the Fleet" would be rotated out in the following month, to be replaced by the current active players. Achieving said rank, is primarily a privilege and possible access to a specific Admiralty ship type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 654
02-14-2011, 12:00 PM
@Darkthunder - trouble is, that's impossible now - aside from the fact that such an overhaul to the rank system would be so drastic as to alienate a large amount of the player-base (and besides, the devs have already ruled such a move out, probably on those grounds), there's also the issue that there are tons of players in-game who've ranked up to Rear/Vice Admiral, and are quite happy to be there. I imagine they'd be pretty darn annoyed if someone forcibly demoted them, just to make everyone Captains.

In the spirit of fairness and freedom of choice, I think it's no better to strip people of ranks they want, than it is to force promotions on those who don't want them. Let people level up, unlock ranks, and let them display the ones they prefer.

Again - we're allowed to choose whichever combinations of uniforms/bridges/ships/etc. we like, regardless of whether they're anachronistic compared to the 25th Century setting of STO or not (or the similar choices of other players, for that matter). That's as it should be - power to the player, an' all that. I just don't understand why rank choice can't be made equally flexible, particularly given the amount of simple, logical and eminently achievable solutions that people here have come up with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
You can try to use Ensign and make people do shuttle runs before getting their first ship.

You can make so that you give back your ship to Admiral Quinn, and he makes you do some shuttle runs.
After proving yourself, you can get your first ship when you hit Lt. Also, you might want to think about adding more ship options.

However, I like the overall clarity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 656
02-17-2011, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurt.locker
You can try to use Ensign and make people do shuttle runs before getting their first ship.

You can make so that you give back your ship to Admiral Quinn, and he makes you do some shuttle runs.
After proving yourself, you can get your first ship when you hit Lt. Also, you might want to think about adding more ship options.

However, I like the overall clarity.
Y'know, it'd be really cool if something like this replaced the current tutorial missions - even the devs have stated that it's unrealistic and cornball that EVERY character in the game becomes a commanding officer through a battlefield promotion.

It'd be so much cooler if you got given some simple missions in a (loaned!) runabout or shuttle just to get the ropes, then got given a proper command upon reaching Lieutenant. In other words, lose the whole Borg attack, and start with something a little more 'generic', just so we don't all have to share the same backstory!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 657
02-17-2011, 03:54 PM
Captains command starships. Admirals command fleets.

Drop the names completely from the leveling-up process; just use tier and level. Don't hobble the game with a finite list for an open-ended process like leveling. It could also be rebranded from level to something like the character's Officer Efficiency Report score.

Make all ranks into titles. Add a separate title field for rank on the Edit Record screen, display options, etc. Default it to Ensign on character creation. Allow players to earn new titles through leveling and fleet membership.

At each tier, award the player with a new rank title and end at captain: i.e., LtJG (for mid tier 1), LT, LCDR, CDR, CPTN. The player can choose to set it or not; don't default it.

For fleets, I'd suggest Acting Fleet Captain, Fleet Captain, and Commodore for recruits on probation, regular members, and veteran members respectively, as defaults for the lowest fleet ranks. People who don't like Commodore (or any of them) can change it, of course. Ranks above that use the admiral/general names by default.

Only the character's current fleet rank would be an option as a rank title, unlike the solo-earned titles, so there should probably just be a stub <fleet rank> item to choose.

UPDATED 23:25 ET:

I lost one additional point due to cut and paste. If a character's uniform includes rank, it should update automatically when the player changes the rank title. That should go for BOff promotions too!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 658
02-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by camenecium View Post
Captains command starships. Admirals command fleets.

Drop the names completely from the leveling-up process; just use tier and level. Don't hobble the game with a finite list for an open-ended process like leveling. It could also be rebranded from level to something like the character's Officer Efficiency Report score.

Make all ranks into titles. Add a separate title field for rank on the Edit Record screen, display options, etc. Default it to Ensign on character creation. Allow players to earn new titles through leveling and fleet membership.

At each tier, award the player with a new rank title and end at captain: i.e., LtJG (for mid tier 1), LT, LCDR, CDR, CPTN. The player can choose to set it or not; don't default it.

For fleets, I'd suggest Acting Fleet Captain, Fleet Captain, and Commodore for recruits on probation, regular members, and veteran members respectively, as defaults for the lowest fleet ranks. People who don't like Commodore (or any of them) can change it, of course. Ranks above that use the admiral/general names by default.

Only the character's current fleet rank would be an option as a rank title, unlike the solo-earned titles, so there should probably just be a stub <fleet rank> item to choose.
That's kind of like my proposal (and Mojo's! ) earlier - I really like your idea of making Admiral titles part of being in a fleet. There's something fitting about that - it makes sense for Admirals to have some kind of 'group responsibility' for Flag Officers, and to make their job feel suitably different from that of regular Commanding Officers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 659
02-23-2011, 01:31 PM
I'd like to remind you guys that the submission thread for March's "Ask Cryptic" is up now, if you want to submit questions that may or may not involve separating ranks from skill level...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 660
02-23-2011, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I'd like to remind you guys that the submission thread for March's "Ask Cryptic" is up now, if you want to submit questions that may or may not involve separating ranks from skill level...
Thanks.

Here are the questions I asked this month:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamato
I have a couple of questions:

First, can you give us a timeline for widening the selection of Melee Weapons, so that we aren't stuck with Bat'leths?

And Second, what are the probabilities that the Rank System will get a re-vamp, separating Rank from Skill Level?

I sincerely hope you will answer my questions.
What do you guys think?
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