Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 741 history needs a check mate
04-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Commodore is the first flag rank after Captain. In the US Navy it would be equivalent to having One Star. The US Navy used it in WW2, and later changed it to Lower Half.

Commodore was and IS a British Naval rank, and is still used by many Navies around the world, including Canada.

Starfleet definitely had it, in the period of Enterprise, in the TOS and in the TMP periods at least. There has been no evidence of the rank since then, but also no evidence it was dropped.

A Commandant is a POSITION not a Rank. It has been used to denote the commander of Starfleet Academy, who might be of any appropriate rank.
canada, (and i know this for a fact cause im in the canadian army) has used the rank of Commodore sense it has separated from UK in the 70's. in the 90's the term/rank of commodore in all of canada was lost from its insignia book indicating that canada no longer has used the rank.

there however in our history is showing that anyone to which carried the rank had been swapped over a Rear Admiral's, and for the part seen them as Rear Admiral lower halfs.

US History/Insignia book, to which Canadian Personnel should and have also been trained in shows that the same thing. however there is no date to when US may have changed.

UK history still has it in they books, but it also has been noted that by other nations they are to be referred to as Rear Admirals.

so the given rank of Commodore has been, and is now promptly considered history, and has be combined into Rear Admirals. there are 2 Grades to Rear Admirals. both lower and upper. upper being highest, and neither of them meaning a dam thing, cause a admiral is a admiral.

I do remember one episode now that you said something, it was in TOS onboard the Enterprise, where they had spoken to a Commodore. so i retract my statement there.

Commandant. as you may or may not be aware. the position of commandant, the person in said person was always called commandant John Doe, or Commandant Jane Doe. indicating it, to be a form or rank or other. you dont see people going around saying Police Officer John Doe, you see them calling them Cst. John Doe. giving rank to the person.

you are right thou, there is no prove that SF had gone away with commodore. but given the history to which is presented, Rear Admiral never existed with the rank of commodore. and thou i like the sound of Commodore, does it really matter if we strip the two of these ranks to best suit you and maybe 100 other people?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 742
04-09-2011, 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmera
commodore is both RA lower and upper in one. the rank was once a british naval rank. most nations got rid of it before the first world war. starfleet never had it. but they have commandants.
errr no actually Commodores are cannon, and starfleet has had a load of them:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_I._Mendez

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Matt_Decker

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Stocker

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Stone_(Commodore)

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Travers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 743
04-09-2011, 03:13 AM
-- double post
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 744
04-09-2011, 03:34 AM
I still think the whole Rank system need adjustment.
What is the post all series feature? Right, CAPTAIN.
So instead of promoting us behind a desk in HQ, cap the ranking at Captain and just add levels as years of service to distinguish between the ranks.
Admiral should be a title available as leader of fleets, but not to anyone commanding a single ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 745
04-09-2011, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmera
Commandant. as you may or may not be aware. the position of commandant, the person in said person was always called commandant John Doe, or Commandant Jane Doe. indicating it, to be a form or rank or other. you dont see people going around saying Police Officer John Doe, you see them calling them Cst. John Doe. giving rank to the person.
Commandant is a position not a rank:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Commandant (in trek)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_of_Sandhurst (in the real world)

you will note that most of them had the RANK of Major-General and the position of Commandant.

an Officer Commanding/Commanding Officer is also a position, not a rank, usually equated with person mbeing a Major and in command of Company sized unit, not all majors are Commanding Officers...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 746
04-09-2011, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia
I still think the whole Rank system need adjustment.
What is the post all series feature? Right, CAPTAIN.
So instead of promoting us behind a desk in HQ, cap the ranking at Captain and just add levels as years of service to distinguish between the ranks.
Admiral should be a title available as leader of fleets, but not to anyone commanding a single ship.
Captain is odd, it is a military rank, and it is also a position. The master of a ship is always addressed as Captain when on board, almost regardless of rank. It is usually regarded as a breach military etiquette to address him or her by their "rank" when they are aboard their vessel.

I dont disagree the rank system does need an overhall, leveling takes place too fast...
Lt. Commander
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# 747
04-09-2011, 04:59 AM
You just made me remember the scene between Nog and O'Brain when Jadzia (or was it Worf?) was addressed Captain.
Yes, Captain is both a rank and title. In all series it was usually the highest rank of Officers at the front lines, while flag officers stay behind.
So if you want STO to be canon remain on ESD or other Starbases after reaching Commodore (aka Rear Admiral, lower half) :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 748
04-09-2011, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia
I still think the whole Rank system need adjustment.
What is the post all series feature? Right, CAPTAIN.
So instead of promoting us behind a desk in HQ, cap the ranking at Captain and just add levels as years of service to distinguish between the ranks.
Admiral should be a title available as leader of fleets, but not to anyone commanding a single ship.
Indeed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 749
04-09-2011, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia
You just made me remember the scene between Nog and O'Brain when Jadzia (or was it Worf?) was addressed Captain.
Yes, Captain is both a rank and title. In all series it was usually the highest rank of Officers at the front lines, while flag officers stay behind.
So if you want STO to be canon remain on ESD or other Starbases after reaching Commodore (aka Rear Admiral, lower half) :p
you i think are missing the point, shame, I'm not disagreeing with you about that, alas leveling up is the only way to remain "in the game" and still get new material every now and again...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 750
04-09-2011, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingbadger View Post
Captain is odd, it is a military rank, and it is also a position. The master of a ship is always addressed as Captain when on board, almost regardless of rank. It is usually regarded as a breach military etiquette to address him or her by their "rank" when they are aboard their vessel.

I dont disagree the rank system does need an overhall, leveling takes place too fast...
In Star Trek lore, the Position/rank of Captain was always given to command the ship. in the TOS Motion pictures, every time Kirk took command of the vessel is had to temporal demote himself to Captain.

so im going to agree with Sophia. they should be some way they can create it that the levels are there with a rank system that fallows ST lore.

and again, ill repeat my self, cause clearly you didnt want to read the later post on Commodores, and went right into bashing me as if its your past time cause you have alot of bad days thinking your in the military or something. i said, Starfleet DID have Commodores at one point in time cause i recalled a episode in TOS. the term/position/rank was never used after that. Wiki can be faned based and if i wanted to right now edit everything you just did to suit my own desires. thus your in a hard case right now with the names of Commodores seeings as none of them served in movies, let alone seen.

as for Commandants. thanking your for re-typing everything i just said. other than the fact that you think i called them commanding officers, just cause someone is a ranking officer of a academy doesnt make them the commanding officer.

and if you were really military there mate, you would know that just about any rank could be a commanding rank. Lieutenants is where it starts in most cases, and end with major's who really are just a ranking officer of the company, and rarely seen as the commanding officer as our nations will never deploy a officer of that rank into the battlefield in terms with our own RoE. i will say this, not all Officer may be allowed to have command. any officer referred to as a "regarded Officer" may not have command as they are assigned to the formation-ed group for special reasons, eg-they a field Art spotter. everyone in the army a spotter spots, and has to follow the command of the ordering officer, and thus cant cant command any form of unit cause he would be commanding himself.

2nd Lt. First Fld. Art reg. Canadian Armed Forces. thank you.
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