Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-01-2010, 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
Fixed that up for you, it had one full seasons of good episodes, a lot of filler and total crap.

I have no idea why they thought the temporal cold war was a good idea for the founding of the federation.
They used the Temperal Cold war to explain away the discrepancies between Enterprise and the earlier shows. Later Coto had said he didn't want to carry on with the cold war because he thought that what needed to be said was said. However he also said if there would have been a 5th season he would have wrapped it up properly and quite early on.

Timeline 1 Prime: TOS to "First Contact"/"Insurrection"/"Nemesis".
Timeline 2 Enterprise Prime: "First Contact", "Enterprise", TOS with modified history and nacelle technology, to "Nemesis", Star Trek Online.
Timeline 3 Enterprise, Abrams and Orci: "First Contact", Enterprise, , "Star Trek 11", "Star Trek 12".

The third timeline is a variation of the second where the nacelle technology is decided to be advanced in the direction that will lead to those seen in Trek 11 instead of the well loved TOS nacelle (more details later). Which places the events of all Trek 11 3 comic book series, (Countdown, Spock's Reflections, and Nero if comics are suddenly canon) in timelline 2, (Enterprise prime). Also the use of LCARS on the Abrams Kelvin Abramsprise is further evidence of a divergent timeline prior to Nero's arrival. The TOS 1701 did not have LCARS it had physical buttons and knobs.

The temporal cold war faction of the Sphere Builders saved the Xindi from extinction, (in the prime timeline the Xindi died out rapidly after their homeworld was destroyed) and turned the Xindi's focus against Earth, and changed the first contact between Earth and the Klingons to a more favourable one, due to the Suliban acting under Future Guy's orders causing Klingon factions to attack each other.

Future guy offered ordinary Suliban the genetic enhancements to get them to do his bidding which some except and become the Cabal. In the prime timeline the Suliban are all only as physically evolved as humans, (Dr. Phlox says this in "Detained").

The Warp 5 programme was started by a member of Daniels' temporal cold war action from the prime timeline, (I call them Section 31 Temporal Harmony Division) as he knew his time line was gone, (or he could not get back) his contingency orders were to help humanity and try and steer this timeline towards the having a Federation or similar organisation, achieve Warp 5 speeds quicker then they do in the prime timeline, because the Future Guy's faction, (the Brotherhood, 29th century Romulans) have been giving adavanced tech to the Romulans of the 22nd century, (hence the cloaking green modern looking warbird, cloaking devices, and the advanced remote controlled drone) to try and get them to win the Earth Romulan War and stop the birth of the Federation. Also his team maybe responsible for the particle phaser and phaser technology used by Earth in Enterprise. He does not help Earth destroy the Romulans due to their alliance against the Dominion.

Section 31 made apearances in DS9. Section 31 is the name of an autonomous intelligence and defense organization. It is presented as a special security operation, manned by UFP Citizens that is not subject to the normal constraints of Starfleet ethical protocols.

The organization appears, or is mentioned, across eight episodes of Star Trek Enterprise and DS9.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-01-2010, 05:43 AM
there was only 3 time travle treks i really enjoyed, the one in tos were mcoy goes crazy and they have to let that social worker die,the voyage home, and tng where data loses his head
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-01-2010, 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pan420
there was only 3 time travle treks i really enjoyed, the one in tos were mcoy goes crazy and they have to let that social worker die,the voyage home, and tng where data loses his head
While ST IV The Voyage home was time travel it was nothing to do with any corresponding time line directly such as later movies and shows where oe altering the future. Particularly where altering one reality to fit with another, the pinnacle of which is the latest new movies, which while I watched the first Abrams I wont be watching the second..to me it was even bigger kick in the crotch than the last episode of Enterprise. Call me old fashioned but I like the 23 and 24 th century the way it was with its time line, now its just being butched by people who simply do not not know their canon ie Abrams.

The fact is what we have now is the prime and alternate universe..obviously enterprise is alternate..but it does have its links with Enterprise one way and another with it's temperal timeline whether abrams ment it or not..so yeah it has thrown open a can of worms that a lot of people are rightfully angry about. What I cant believe is that Nimoy even agreed with it 0.o
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-01-2010, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pan420
the episode where tucker and the princes were escaping from those aliens,that episode impressed me
it definatly wasnt the kill the evil alien or the "we got to fix the timeline" crap id been seeing for years
i know we all like different things and im not knocking you for liking it but i think that was the worst episode of star trek i have ever seen, at least in my memory it is. i only saw it the once
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-01-2010, 06:46 AM
Star Trek IV save the whales. the us box office numbers, was the most grossing box office hit of all the movies including and upto Nemesis. Then we have abrams version

heres the numbers to prove how much of a hit it was and how the rest fell by the wayside including TNG VIII First Contact.

TMP US Gross $82,258,456 Budget $35,000,000 final US only Proft $ 47.258m
Wrath Of Khan US Gross $79,912,963 budget $12,000,000 final US only Profit $67.912m
Search For Spock US Gross $76,471,046 budget $18,000,000 final US only Profit $58.471m
VOYAGE HOME US Gross $109,713,132 budget $24,000,000 final US only Profit $85,713m
Final Frontier US Gross $52,210,049 budget $30,000,000 final US only Profit $22,210m
Undiscovered Country US Gross $74,888,996 budget $27,000,000 final US only Profit $47.888m
Generations US Gross $75,671,262 budget $38,000,000 final US only Profit $37.671m
First Contact US Gross $92,027,888 budget $46,000,000 final US only Profit $46.027m
Insurrection US Gross $70,187,658 budget $70,000,000 final US only Profit $00.187m
Nemesis US Gross $43,254,409 budget $60,000,000 final US only Profit $-16.746 m

Then we have abrams alternate reality version US Gross $257,730,019 budget $140,000,000. This is artificial because before this movie, like The Motion Picture there had not been any new Trek on TV or anywhere else for that matter since 2002 with Nememsis and 2005 with Enterprise. Add in to the fact the 90210 crap and you end up with huge numbers in the case of abrams. But if you do the math between how much it cost to make and how it much grossed at the US Box Office then Star Trek 11 only made $32 million more than the Voyage home from its budget for which when you consider it with all the movies later from Voyage home is astounding. when you compare the two side by side. Trek 11 $117m after we take away the cost of production and Trek IV The Voyage Home $85m again after the cost of production,

I have only listed US Box office takes because its only this market that the hollywood studios base decisions on to make more trek movies the same goes with any us television show from the networks, they sell their shows internationally but they dont base decisions on the intnl market to make renewal shows, The international market helps to also offset the production costs and add profits to the studio(s) who made the show / movie.

Before abrams came along ST IV The Voyage home was the most grossing US Box Office hit for the franchise. FC gave it a good run for its money. I am only including Gross Box office here, not what it finally made. Box Office comparions on the last day of its first showing.

1 Star Trek 11
2 Voyage Home
3 First Contact
4 The Motion Picture
5 The Wrath Of Khan

Just goes to show how popular The Voyage Home was, at the time, even more because of its storyline..save the whales..which at the time people where trying to get a law passed to stop commercial hunting whales most notably the japanese and norwegians...yet now the japanese are illegally hunting whales again

and if we decided to add worldwide profit numbers in youd be quite surprised.

all time worldwide gross profit with trek movies to date with production costs factered in, this is just pure profit from world and us box office combined.

1. Trek 11 $502m
2. Voyage Home $218m
3. First Contact $196m
4. TMP $186m
5. Wrath $163m
6. Generations $157m
7. Search For Spock $145m
8. Undiscovered Country $144m
9. Insurrection $117m
10. Final Frontier $92m
11. Nemesis $50m


and the biggest grossing tv series todate? in th correct order of dvd sales 1. DS9 surpassed TNg several years ago,2. TNG, 3. TOS, 4. ENT, 5.VOY since Enterprise ended there has been a sharp drop in boxset and season dvd purchases, the last of which where ENT boxsets which easily surpassed VOY and almost caught TOS up. This is why prices of all boxset seasons are dropping like bricks. in prices in most stores.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-01-2010, 09:06 AM
Enterprise was underrated. Going back and seeing the show in it's entirety, it had a lot of good qualities. The last episode, while bringing closure to the show, was awful. The inclusion of Riker and Troi was far from seemless. They try to give Tripp a heroic end but fall flat on their face. It just felt like it was thrown together the night before and sufficient thought wasn't put into it. However, I am not basing my entire assesment of the series on one episode. The introduction of the Xindi story line was not bad. It got better as they went along. My expert opinion is that the show got the axe just as it was starting to hit it's stride. It had the potential to become one of the top series in the franchise. Instead, they arbitrarily decide that the only people who watch Star Trek are a few scattered nerds and they torpedo the whole thing. Speaking as one of those millions of scattered nerds out there, I say that a new show is absolutely viable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-01-2010, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wake_Roberts
Enterprise was underrated. Going back and seeing the show in it's entirety, it had a lot of good qualities. The last episode, while bringing closure to the show, was awful. The inclusion of Riker and Troi was far from seemless. They try to give Tripp a heroic end but fall flat on their face. It just felt like it was thrown together the night before and sufficient thought wasn't put into it. However, I am not basing my entire assesment of the series on one episode. The introduction of the Xindi story line was not bad. It got better as they went along. My expert opinion is that the show got the axe just as it was starting to hit it's stride. It had the potential to become one of the top series in the franchise. Instead, they arbitrarily decide that the only people who watch Star Trek are a few scattered nerds and they torpedo the whole thing. Speaking as one of those millions of scattered nerds out there, I say that a new show is absolutely viable.
I wish I could agree with your assessment why it was cancelled, but sadly the truth is, it was Moonves when UPN became a viacom cbs channel. Moonves well known for his outspoken persona openly critized the show and the franchice and even more importantly the genre. While he is network exec sci fi will be given a back seat in the ocean with out a boat.

Paramount had zero say in it, because it was down to viacom and because cbs owned the television distribution arm of viacom at the time , that also included paramount home entertainment..the guys responsible both in the us and internationally repsonisble for sale of vhs then later dvd. Now all trek is sold via paramount cbs dvd's.

God I hate these politics..move over mr moonves and let the show come back..it should never have been fired anyway...would coto come back tho? problem is from the rumours I have heard he will direct the new Hawaii Five - 0 (2:0) rebrand..so who knows if thats true. Its mute until that evil man goes or they force him...while he is president somehow that aint going to work. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-01-2010, 06:23 PM
This is why I hate american media, especially the newer crap. There's so much politics and money grabbing involved that nothing ever gets done.

I mean, jeez, if it's not distribution rights, it's race or gender or some other crap. Like this Avatar the Last Air Bender move that's out, or hit girl. WHO CARES WHAT THE GUY'S SKIN COLOR IS! IF they casted a bunch of Inuit people to lead the lead role of the water benders you know? people would complain because they didn't know why they were because Americans can't enjoy a movie unless they can recognize the faces or the franchise because they're that shallow.

And those same people complained because the Navi from Avatar (maybe the name it just cursed) are all like "oh, the Navi are racist because they use spears and bows and arrows and 4 of them were playing basket ball" DUDE, THEY'RE 9 FOOT TALL BLUE DUDES! There are no 9 foot tall blue dudes on earth, not in Africa, not in Australia, not eve on the fricken moon! What racist ideals you're seeing there, you putting there yourself because YOU attribute spears and bows and arrows and running on the balls of your feet with racism, the rest of us know that that's simply the way that most people imagine people from an uncivilized society to act. And by uncivilized I mean the literal definition, lack of buildings and roads and trans and iPods, not some derogatory term for an inferior race, because the Navi were in touch with nature and were honorable and respectable people.

And the hullabaloo about hit girl, GET OVER IT! I've met very few 10 year old girls I didn't want to strangle or stuff a bag of rocks down their throats just to shut them up. Kids are not Innocent, they are pure evil! IF a 6 year old girl can be on the terror watch list, then a 10 year old girl can run around and swear. Because people were more appalled by he swearing than her actually murdering people with a sword. Murder is ok in our society, but swearing is so evil.


American media has become so watered down trying to to offend anyone and trying to get as much money as possible that it's taken it's toll on both our story telling and our ability to enjoy certain story lines or characters.

Star Trek was awesome. It will always be awesome so long as JJ Abrams is brought to justice for his crimes against humanity. Older Star Trek "got it". IT was about both moral and scientific exploration. It was about something bigger than the rest of us. There was no stroking ourselves over how awesome America is with obvious allegories to our current enemies, no it was far more complex than that. Romulans weren't just a soviet allegory, it was an allegory about the entire cold war mind set. I was about human nature and how we can become paranoid and delusional when under fearful and crazy circumstances it taught us that paranoia and too much zeal was a bad thing. Not TV tells us that paranoia is justified because paranoia is safer than being dead.

Get some good anime. Not all anime is awesome, some of it sucks, just like any other medium. But Anime isn't afraid to say what it wants to say. It sees art in things we consider to offensive to be artistic because they can look past all of that petty crap and see to the core of the subject. Anime can take you far away from here in a space ship and will actually have more than 1 space battle per season. Anime knows how to blend character development and story telling together and the interactions between the characters are more realistic, they don't all need to be on meds.

Oh, and Star Trek isn't a "Franchise" it's a universe. To the suits in corporate media it's just another way to make money. Maximize your profit margins by taking out all of the fluff until there's juust barley enough to keep the masses interested then when they get tired of watching your half a$$es hour long block of popular opinion and safe story lines that don't offend anyone or make us ask any questions of ourselves you can either toss in a new, hot piece of a$$ or cancel it and focus on more marketable gruel like reality shows about shallow rich girls or the Caprica Paranoia Hour staring robots as Muslim extremists! Yeah American TV!


On a side note, ever one knows what word I'm spelling when I type "A" "dollar sign", "dollar sign", but that's all you need to do to get by because people are that shallow. Even if there's only one swear word that could possibly fit into a particular sentience, if you beep it out it's out of sight out of mind. You know that guy said the dreaded "F" word, it's the only word that starts with an F that get's beeped, that's why it "THE eff word" not "A Eff word" "besides that's too hard to say" You know the guy said it but it still got beeped. Don't kid yourselves, you kids already know it, they learned it from that one kid in class who's dad drinks after work to forget how hard his day is then beats is wife and kids and calls him a "little f***er" But it's ok that he drink, because this is America. As long as he doesn't swear he can do what ever he wants.

Oh and even though most of all of this is true or completely plausible there's gonna be some one who's offended by the harsh reality of all of this and complain. And you know that? That's what's wrong with American media today. We try to hide from a reality we can't escape and get offended when we have to face it just because we disagree with it.
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