Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I wanted to toss this around here before putting this up on the other boards for discussion to get valuable improvement ideas and suggestions on how to make this sound more realistic and not a 300-some meter warship with 14 weapons slots, (ya'll see how I get 14 in a bit), which needs a bit of help of condencing down in size big time. On no terms would I want to fly a ship in STO with 14 weapons slots, even if cannonly, these ships had 18 phasers emitters and 2 torpedoes torpedo tubes for a total of 20.

Since, I believe, that its been confirmed that there will be future ship tier upgrades in-game, I'd like to suggest an upgrade idea for the Refit Constitution Class.

Everything, in short, is basically combining the elements found on the TOS Movie Era Constitution with the elements on Cryptic's Refit Constiution.

In this suggestion, I'd like to cover a concept of possibly upgrading the T2 Constitutions to a higher Tier.

To begin with, let's compare Cryptic's Refit Constitution to the Refit Constitutions of the TOS Movie Era:

Cyrptic's Refit Constitution

Refit Constitution cia 2270

The main difference between the two are the energy weapons emitters.
The CR Constitution features beam arrays, much like those on ships in the TNG Era
The 2270 Refit Constitution features beam banks, indicated by the green hue in the second image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memory-Alpha
After the refit of the 2270s, Constitution-class ships mounted three dual-emitter phaser banks on the ventral and three on dorsal faces of the saucer. They covered the forward, port and starboard flanks. Two single emitter aft banks are above the shuttlebay and four midship single emitter banks are located on the ventral surface of the engineering hull.

Phaser power was increased by drawing energy directly from the warp drive. This increase in firepower had a drawback in that the phasers would be cut off if the main reactor was off line. This problem hampered the USS Enterprise on at least two occasions, one in 2272 and again in 2283.

The post-refit vessels had two forward firing torpedo launchers, though each tube could fire at least two torpedoes before reloading.
*Link to Page*
Info. is halfway donw the page

In comparing the two, I'd like to suggest that additional fore and aft weapons could be added on to the ship in-game by combining elements of the 23rd Century Refit and the 25th Century Refit.

Energy Weapons
Fore Weapons 4 Total, but with 2 firing together at most ant any given time.

For Example, in addition to the beam arrays already on Cryptic's Constitution, the beam banks could possibly be added in the FORE, PORT, and STARBOARD positions ventral and dorsal on the saucer section. This could utilize the Dual Beam Banks in-game since they have a 90-degree firing arc. None of these weapons would overlap, unless we'd add the beam arrays from the in-game Consitution as well. As such, there could possibly be one beam array weapon slotted to cover the arrays mounted ventral and dorsal and add in with the dual beam banks with its 210-degree firing arc.

Aft Weapons 4 Total

In terms of aft weapons, I can come up with 3, maybe 4 since Cryptic's supports 2 slotted weapons, slotted total by combining those on the 2270 refit and Cryptic's.
The two aft weapons on the orgional refit were beam banks, but this could be altered easily. In this case here, to the aft single emitters could possibly slot beam arrays while the area on Cryptic's could support torpedoes if the user wanted them.

Midship Weapons 4 Total (optional)

The midship weapons idea is taken from the 4 single emitter midship weapons located ventral on the engineering hull.

Thise cluster of 4 emitter area could possibly support a set of four turrets for fore and aft targeting since turrets target 360 degreese.

Projectil Weapons

Fore Porjectil Weapons 2 Torpedo Launchers total

It's common knowledge the the Refit Constitutions have 2 forward torpedo launchers and this idea utilizes that feature for the forward facing torpedo weapons. Basically, it's a matter of using the dual torpedo launchers as individual slotted weapons of their own, adding two additon fore weapons. However, these slotted weapons would probably have to be limited to torpedo weapons due to their location on the ship

Aft Projectil Weapons

From what I can find on Memory-Alpha, I cannont confirm aft projectil weapons on the 2270 Refit Constitution. As such, the aft weapns area on Cryptic's Constitution could step in and fill this gap and could be easily swapped out for energy weapons if the user desired..


Weapons Total

Fore Weapons:

Dual Beam Banks x3
Beam Array x1
Forward Torpedo Launchers x2
___________________________________________
Total: 6

Aft Weapons

Single Emitter Bank (port and starboard of center) x2
*Cryptic's Aft weapon slot x2
___________________________________________
Total: 4

Optional Midship Weapons

Single Beam Emitters x4
___________________________________________
Total: 4


Over All Total:
14 Slotted weapons with Optional Midship weapons
10 Total w/o Midship Weapons
Two of which are definate torpedo weapons
Three of which do not overlap when firing

*for lack of better terms

At this time, I've yet to figure out how to include propulsion, shield, and hull upgrades in this idea.

I know this seems like a lot for a T2 upgrade proposal, and I'll work to improve on the concept over time as well as try to better convey the idea. Please stick with me through out this process of updating the idea as I'll try to do my best with it. I know that nobody would want to face down a Constitution with 14 weapons slots, as this severly overwhelmes the Tier 5 ships' eight I've seen on the cruisers. On this total, however, I can easily subtract 4 because of th emid ship weapons and 3 of the 4 suggested fore evergy weapons would have a 90-Degree targeting arc, futher cutting this down and possibly putting it on level with T5 ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
07-03-2010, 01:53 AM
1) We don't know that any ship will be able to be upgraded

2) never going to be given that meny slots, ever, the most any ship has is 8. that will still be the limit.

3) there are no weapon specific slots.

4) No Ship currently conforms to the actual load outs specified in the cannon sources, why should that one? hell why is that still even being run in the 25 century?

I know lots of people love the Consitution but it's presance irritates me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
07-03-2010, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
1) We don't know that any ship will be able to be upgraded

2) never going to be given that meny slots, ever, the most any ship has is 8. that will still be the limit.

3) there are no weapon specific slots.

4) No Ship currently conforms to the actual load outs specified in the cannon sources, why should that one? hell why is that still even being run in the 25 century?

I know lots of people love the Consitution but it's presance irritates me.
I agree with the sentiment here, same with the Miranda Class. Why are we captaining ships that are this old going up against technologically superior foes with cutting and leading edge designs with what would amount to Dad's old Ford from behind the tool shed?

When I had my Constitution I tried my best to make it look like a Sovereign with the sleek saucer and Sovie-looking Nacelles, this wasn't because I like the Sovereign better (which I do, mind you) it was simply because I had to not feel like I was the captain of a screaming metal death-trap. Just like why I make my Miranda Classes a horrible Frankenstein of almost all available pieces, to avoid looking the part of not only an obsolete vessel but an obsolete vessel that was the Trek equivalent to Kenny on South Park.

Zero I know from in game how much you love the Constitution, that's cool, it's a classy lady. But, follow the progression of the movies. The "Constitution Upgrade" would really = Excelsior Class. I'm going to guess that because of the huge demand and because there was even a poll about it that we'll see it not that long from now, and because of it's advanced design it'll probably be towards the top tiers making it a classy old ship with modern teeth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
07-03-2010, 08:36 AM
I'm not that fond if the Excelsior class believe it or not..... I'd settle with an Ambassador class and not go back to my Constitution as far as that goes. (they can keep the Galaxy class)

It wasn't intentional that I got 14 or even 10 slots. Or set weapons areas for that matter.

I think I ineterpreted one of the segments in the last Q&A in an extremely haywire way. I think that's what happened.
Quote:
Q: Jade Delphi: Will we see some sort of 'refit' or 'upgrade' feature that will allow us to continue to use the hulls/designs we like through upper tiers, instead of being forced up into the next tier of ship design to even be effective?

A: Something like that. We know this is a feature that has been often requested. We are working out the details now, and we may start with a few experiments at first and see how it goes.
The entiere idea was slapped together at about 2 o'clock this mornin' and could really really use s lot of work. I can probebly come up with ways to drop weapons slots down to Tier 3 levels and have it sound a bit more realistic and not haywire in the slightest. In all being, I don't see the ship rising past Tier 2. And I think the only reason they're ingame, along with the Mirandas, is because they were iconic in Trek history. If it wasn't for that, I'd guarentee they'd not be here. Even by the TNG era, the Excelsiors (not sayin' anythin' bad against 'em) were loosin' steam, but could hold their own because of refits. By this time, they've been in service 70-80 years and would've been in service for well over 120 years by 2409. I wouldn't know if any service would keep a class in active duty for this long, but given the the Miranda and Consitutions are here, I can see Excelsiors fittin' in somehow. Based on the poll, I'd definately rule out the NX Class and Enterprise-J as playable ship classes. One: Because the NX class is 22nd century and two: Ent-J was a 26th century ship. The only way I could imagine seein' these two ingame would be as NPC ships in time travel missions unless everything expands to allow ship play in a specific era with respective ships.

In short, I don't see this as a plasuible idea now, after a night's sleep, for STO ships. But I could, however see this as a more or less sereis/movie cannon update if it was to happen. Basically, I'd just toss this out the airlock as of right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
07-03-2010, 08:52 AM
Yeah for me the lowest class of ship should have ships that were new in the end of the TNG era (that TNG, DS9 and Voyager) and then some better thought out designs for the newer ships.

Generally what you did wasn't bad, just missed some vitals (like the best tier 5 ships only having 8 weapons slots total)

and the ventt about the connie is jsut my personal irritation with people trying to shoehorn in their favorite bit of something no matter if it is massivly out of place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
07-03-2010, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
Yeah for me the lowest class of ship should have ships that were new in the end of the TNG era (that TNG, DS9 and Voyager) and then some better thought out designs for the newer ships.

Generally what you did wasn't bad, just missed some vitals (like the best tier 5 ships only having 8 weapons slots total)

and the ventt about the connie is jsut my personal irritation with people trying to shoehorn in their favorite bit of something no matter if it is massivly out of place.
I'll agree with this. I can see how T4 ships are Galaxy, Intrepid, and Defiant with variations on them, but at best, the Intrepids are 30 some years old at this point in the game along with the T5 Sovereigns and Prometheus classse and maybe the Luna- but I haven't read the Titan novels to know much about the Luna class. In other ways, I can see how they are T4 and T5 because of the redesigns mostly. Variants of the main ship classes updated to current standards so logically the base ship would be there, I think. I believe that the Nova class is good where it is as a T2 science vessel and the Akaris could've possibly been bumped to captain rank vessels. If we go on age of the ship, I'd be willing to bet Excelsiors would be tossed in as T2 ships, which I could see as more likey than the Constitution. As I'm not tat familiar with TNG era ships outside of the Ambassador, Galaxy, Nebula, Defiant, and Intrepid, I can't say much else here.

Like said before, I did this a two in the mornin' and was somewhat out of it and couldn't exactally think straight and didn't put everything togehter
I can think of ways to slash the fore weps down to 4 universal and the midship wep don't even have to be there to make it a round 8 like the best T5. I'll admit, 14 is a bit crazy along with set weapons slots and the 4ventral turrets. The idea is a work in progress and ya'lls input is what I'm lookin' for on how to revise this down to more realistic levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
07-03-2010, 11:17 AM
You only want a Connie upgrade because you lost epically to Hazard last night! :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
07-03-2010, 05:14 PM
Even if we didn't have the fight???


I'm just too attached to the ship(thus why I have coarboard, pop bottle, and hot glue models of Constitutions in my room; It's the one on the left)) class to really want anything different other than an Ambassador.

Though'd I even settle for this if I had to. It was my origional concept for the Arizona I came up with several years ago, and I fell in love with the ship during the process of constructing the actual model.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
07-03-2010, 05:48 PM
I've always been in favor of a refit system for players who want to take an iconic ship and upgrade it for T5 PVP and missions but in my head I can only see that being done with Tier 3 ships and above. I can see a Galaxy or a Intrepid being refitted and going out on the front lines but a ship as old as a Connie would just not be able to do that feasibly.

As for the Feds, well in my opinion they're morons. If you ever watched DS9 you can see how they still insist upon fielding a fleet with out-dated, inferior ships against superior foes. Heck they even willingly refuse to use cloaking devices on their ships.

How the Feds operate is just beyond logic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
07-04-2010, 08:35 PM
It's entirely possible to have Constitution classes serving as flagships if the Devs can pull it off convincably. I'm hoping they monitor these threads, because this is pretty well thought out.

And speaking in-universe, if the Feds are going up against the Borg again, they'd better darn well pull any ship they can get a warp core into out of the graveyard.
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