Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 161
04-07-2009, 09:51 PM
Yes, well, Humans were never really good at learning from their mistakes. Welcome to the STO Forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 162
04-07-2009, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumaka View Post
Yes, well, Humans were never really good at learning from their mistakes. Welcome to the STO Forums.
Im not sure if there was a pun there or not. But I laughed out loud anyways. Thanks for that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 163
04-07-2009, 10:27 PM
Sounds like human nature to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 164
04-07-2009, 10:54 PM
Yeah, I tend to like the brashness of the Fed. It'll be their undoing :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 165
04-07-2009, 11:03 PM
I agree that their is an illogical nature of humans and even the Feds of 23rd century and on. However, in my opinion, that is what gives humans their charm.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 166
04-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytok View Post
I agree that their is an illogical nature of humans and even the Feds of 23rd century and on. However, in my opinion, that is what gives humans their charm.
Yeah, to get somewhat serious for a moment, you can't have it set up so that the Fed is doing everything perfectly. There has to be conflict and captains making up for deficiencies of their faction. That makes each captain feel much more epic.

That, and it would probably feel much worse to fail as a SF Captain if SF was built up to be infallible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 167
04-08-2009, 04:59 AM
I'm an outsider here so I can't help but look at what Star Trek is compared to all of the other settings I've researched in my years as a roleplayer.

There's really nothing like the Federation anywhere else. You want gritty politics and treachery? Sure, there have been episodes of even TNG or DS9 that looked at internal moral and strategic failings in The Federation. The Romulans especially but also the Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians among others are motivated by generally more real politik and less idealistic motives.

However the uniqueness is that The Federation knows better. The one thing you think when you see them fall down is "They should be ashamed of themselves, they know better than this." There's an underlaying ideal of The Federation that produced people like Picard who, later, end up having to sometimes hold a mirror to it and remind it of what it stands for.

There's something very comforting and inspiring in this vision, realistic or not, to many people. If Star Trek was really just action-adventure and shoot 'em ups and the Federation was a morally compromised, byzantine, web of murky self-interested ethically lapsed manipulators would it really have the following it does? I don't think so.

There's nothing else quite like it out there.

If you want to see the "other side" of what The Federation could be I'd recommend looking at The Alliance in Firefly. Kind, benevolent on the surface but steely, manipulative and self-interested when necessary at the core. I'm looking forward to a Firefly MMO one day too, believe me, I like the gritty swashbuckling thing in a big way.

But that's not what I want here. I can get that elsewhere. The Federation and its ideals are unique and I'll never see that anywhere else but STO. Let's do it right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 168
04-08-2009, 08:32 AM
I actually think it's smart from the Federation's point of view to temporarily dismantle the Borg taskforce. However, I believe it would be prudent to have some uber-long range scouts keeping tabs on the Borg just in case. But to pour tons of resources into defending against a threat that will return at an unknown time isn't exactly the best use of resources.

Imagine the scenario in which the Federation keeps the Borg taskforce. High amounts of military spending for a prolonged period of time is what leads to the downfall of great civilizations. The Borg are smart, and probably have their eyes on the Federation. All the Borg have to do in this scenario is wait for the Federation to collapse (or even just hiccup) due to their military spending and then invade.

I believe that the best attribute of a civilization's military is not how well it can fight at all times, but how swiftly it can move from a peacetime footing to a wartime footing. So I applaude the Federation for focusing more on science and exploration during this relatively peaceful time. I just hope it can switch back to a war setting fast when the time comes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 169
04-08-2009, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OddjobXL View Post
I'm an outsider here so I can't help but look at what Star Trek is compared to all of the other settings I've researched in my years as a roleplayer.

There's really nothing like the Federation anywhere else. You want gritty politics and treachery? Sure, there have been episodes of even TNG or DS9 that looked at internal moral and strategic failings in The Federation. The Romulans especially but also the Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians among others are motivated by generally more real politik and less idealistic motives.

However the uniqueness is that The Federation knows better. The one thing you think when you see them fall down is "They should be ashamed of themselves, they know better than this." There's an underlaying ideal of The Federation that produced people like Picard who, later, end up having to sometimes hold a mirror to it and remind it of what it stands for.

There's something very comforting and inspiring in this vision, realistic or not, to many people. If Star Trek was really just action-adventure and shoot 'em ups and the Federation was a morally compromised, byzantine, web of murky self-interested ethically lapsed manipulators would it really have the following it does? I don't think so.

There's nothing else quite like it out there.

If you want to see the "other side" of what The Federation could be I'd recommend looking at The Alliance in Firefly. Kind, benevolent on the surface but steely, manipulative and self-interested when necessary at the core. I'm looking forward to a Firefly MMO one day too, believe me, I like the gritty swashbuckling thing in a big way.

But that's not what I want here. I can get that elsewhere. The Federation and its ideals are unique and I'll never see that anywhere else but STO. Let's do it right.

all of this can be summed up by the man who can say it the best

"I have nothing but admiration for this silly race of ours. Even with the Hitlers in it and so on. Sometimes it goes into ugliness, but, in all though, it is a beauty. It's like a rose, which also has thorns. We're something."

- Eugene Wesley Roddenberry, from personal conversations with Gene in 1990 at La Costa, CA
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 170
04-19-2009, 04:56 PM
organizing timeline together here...
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