Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
07-25-2010, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fort-Nitron
....

If you find the current offering substandard then take a break and come back at a later time when there is more content. .....
I did. took 4 months off after the first month ...... and when I came back, what did I find as "more content" ??

I found more in the C-Store... at $25 bucks a pop...and also per-character as a new rule.


THAT is what I found when I came back.




are MMO's "Pay-to-take-a-break" nowadays ?

.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
07-25-2010, 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_gin_time_again View Post
I did. took 4 months off after the first month ...... and when I came back, what did I find as "more content" ??

I found more in the C-Store... at $25 bucks a pop...and also per-character as a new rule.


THAT is what I found when I came back.




are MMO's "Pay-to-take-a-break" nowadays ?

.
Perhaps you should be looking for a MMO that has been around for more than 5 years. Nevertheless if everything goes according to plan more content is coming later this week.

Meanwhile I'm having a blast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
07-25-2010, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electra-Base
...Nevertheless if everything goes according to plan more content is coming later this week.
....
I'm looking forward to it. (I've seen whats on Tribble)

The forum response to just how much new content is offered after the 6 month wait will be.......

.... interesting


to say the least.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
07-25-2010, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I'm not sure who ever said that... but I'm certainly on record as stating that the C-Store is one way for our team to justify additional resources to get fan requested one-off items into the game.

Most (if not all) assets used in the game come directly from our content needs.

For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.

Otherwise... you'd end up waiting until we were making content that required an Excelsior ....

Thats how I view the picture... and I for one never forget that you are paying a subscription which is why our very humble small team works a ton of hours to continue to crank up updates.... "for free" (ie your subscription is paying for it)
I don't believe I have said it lately ... but ... Thanks for the hard work and for all that has been given us in this game.

I for one am happy with all the updates with the only exception having been the lack of content for the Klingon faction.

However, you also said you would give us more info on Klingon ships inside two weeks and you held to that promise. Your points went up with me for that with more appreciation.

Regarding the C-store ... some will hate me for saying this but I love this game and love the content that goes into it.

I personally have bought many things from the C-store ... including the Galaxy X which I paid for gladly.

I'll also buy the Nebula and Excelsior when they come out.

I also agree that much is given for free in game, and so what is added via the C-store ... I'm cool with it.

After all ... this is a MMO and that means people behind the scenes that need to be paid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
07-25-2010, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.
Maybe you can explain this a bit more, because I'm confused as to how exactly the C-Store helps offset costs in this situation. Maybe if you had said "..provides an opportunity to generate additional revenue we otherwise wouldn't have access to..", the statement would have made more sense. But offset costs? I'm confused. Let's talk about your example:

First, the artists are working on salary, so it's not like the C-Store funds are used to pay out some overtime fund that compensates these artists for working on the Excelsior during non-work hours. Maybe you're suggesting the C-Store funds go towards buying the artists involved some pizzas for working after-hours, but that would have to be one expensive pizza bill to justify the extra money the C-Store sale is generating.

Second, when you place the artists on a C-Store project, you're removing them from working on non-C-Store content (that is, "free" content you consider part of our monthly subscriptions). So, in essence, the more C-Store projects an artists works on, the less "free" content they're able to generate for us. So, in the end it seems like we get less free content, but additional C-Store content, and Cryptic gets more money, and we lose more money. I can definitely see how that's a win for Cryptic, but not for us.

The only real way I can see the C-Store offsetting costs is if you're in a situation where your budget can only allow you to have X artists on the STO live team, but thanks to the C-Store revenue you're able to have X+1 artists instead. But, in that case I would imagine the extra artist would have to be working exclusively on C-Store content to justify the cost of his position (at which point both players and Cryptic are at least breaking even, as they spend more money to get more content without losing any in the process). Is that what you're trying to say?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
07-25-2010, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonseye View Post
I also agree that much is given for free in game, and so what is added via the C-store ... I'm cool with it. ....
free ?

is that before or after you factor in the $50 bucks for the boxgame, another $300 for lifetime ( or $15 a month if subscribed which is $90 so far for six months .... )

please explain "free" to me.

it just sounds to me like you have a lot of money and dont care about a few hundred dollars, you are spending mom's money, or have no accountability for your finances .... therefore not realizing where your money is going.


so ya ..... please clarify "free", ... and explain just what the box price and subscription fees are paying for exactly.

.


.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
07-25-2010, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
Maybe you can explain this a bit more, because I'm confused as to how exactly the C-Store helps offset costs in this situation. Maybe if you had said "..provides an opportunity to generate additional revenue we otherwise wouldn't have access to..", the statement would have made more sense. But offset costs? I'm confused. Let's talk about your example:

First, the artists are working on salary, so it's not like the C-Store funds are used to pay out some overtime fund that compensates these artists for working on the Excelsior during non-work hours. Maybe you're suggesting the C-Store funds go towards buying the artists involved some pizzas for working after-hours, but that would have to be one expensive pizza bill to justify the extra money the C-Store sale is generating.

Second, when you place the artists on a C-Store project, you're removing them from working on non-C-Store content (that is, "free" content you consider part of our monthly subscriptions). So, in essence, the more C-Store projects an artists works on, the less "free" content they're able to generate for us. So, in the end it seems like we get less free content, but additional C-Store content, and Cryptic gets more money, and we lose more money. I can definitely see how that's a win for Cryptic, but not for us.

The only real way I can see the C-Store offsetting costs is if you're in a situation where your budget can only allow you to have X artists on the STO live team, but thanks to the C-Store revenue you're able to have X+1 artists instead. But, in that case I would imagine the extra artist would have to be working exclusively on C-Store content to justify the cost of his position (at which point both players and Cryptic are at least breaking even, as they spend more money to get more content without losing any in the process). Is that what you're trying to say?
Very well written, Combadge. This is mainly how I feel as well, and I would be interested in dstahl's answers to your questions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
07-25-2010, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I'm not sure who ever said that... but I'm certainly on record as stating that the C-Store is one way for our team to justify additional resources to get fan requested one-off items into the game.

Most (if not all) assets used in the game come directly from our content needs.

For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.

Otherwise... you'd end up waiting until we were making content that required an Excelsior ....

Thats how I view the picture... and I for one never forget that you are paying a subscription which is why our very humble small team works a ton of hours to continue to crank up updates.... "for free" (ie your subscription is paying for it)
I'll see your company line and raise you an articulated poster:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garwain_Goodhue View Post
This is an issue that should have EVERYONE angry. Everyone here is a subscriber . . . we paid upwards of 60 dollars for the game, and at least 15 dollars a month for what? A still-as-yet incomplete game.

Lets look at it another way:

$14.99 USD for the privilege of playing this game for the past 4 months. That's 60 dollars American folks. If you're paying a VAT, that's even more. Your price for the game? 49.99 to 70 dollars American, and that's not including any multiple copies. So far, friends, if you didn't buy any other subscription plan, you've invested $110 USD. ONE HUNDRED AND TEN DOLLARS.

Is this game, in it's current state, worth that? Some will say, Hell yeah! Others, if they really think about it, will say . . . Uh, no.

Put another way . . . I got a good two-to-three years of enjoyment out of Taldren's Starfleet Command II: Empires at War. I paid 49.00 for it at the time. If I had to shell out 110 dollars for that, I probably would not have purchased the game, and most of you probably wouldn't have either. It's the same principle here folks. This game isn't any where near as solid or as complex. . .

I'm one of those very unhappy lifer's that was refused a refund 3 days before the 30 day period was up. I'm stuck. I've been following this game with dread as I see the F2P model actually gaining traction amongst the Devs, and watched as content that should be in the game at launch, was intentionally placed in the C-Store, including the Collectors edition exclusive items.

I've never seen such a horrible business that actively rips off it's customers and laughs as they keep coming back for more. I would bet Jack Emmert says to himself, "How can I bilk the other suckers outta their milk money? Those maroons are so desperate, I'd bet they'd pay me $25 dollars to own a virtual Galaxy X!"

He was right.

Per Character services? Forget it. Do yourselves a favor. Have a little dignity Trekkers. Just say no to any more of this crap. Demand the game you payed for in the first place, not a half-baked, generic space RPG with a Trek skin on it. You've spent 110 dollars for it. Cryptic owes you.

Todd J. Wendt
St. Peter, MN
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
07-25-2010, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelSilhouette View Post
I'll see your company line and raise you an articulated poster:
and an equally valid side bet as well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
Maybe you can explain this a bit more, because I'm confused as to how exactly the C-Store helps offset costs in this situation. Maybe if you had said "..provides an opportunity to generate additional revenue we otherwise wouldn't have access to..", the statement would have made more sense. But offset costs? I'm confused. Let's talk about your example:

First, the artists are working on salary, so it's not like the C-Store funds are used to pay out some overtime fund that compensates these artists for working on the Excelsior during non-work hours. Maybe you're suggesting the C-Store funds go towards buying the artists involved some pizzas for working after-hours, but that would have to be one expensive pizza bill to justify the extra money the C-Store sale is generating.

Second, when you place the artists on a C-Store project, you're removing them from working on non-C-Store content (that is, "free" content you consider part of our monthly subscriptions). So, in essence, the more C-Store projects an artists works on, the less "free" content they're able to generate for us. So, in the end it seems like we get less free content, but additional C-Store content, and Cryptic gets more money, and we lose more money. I can definitely see how that's a win for Cryptic, but not for us.

The only real way I can see the C-Store offsetting costs is if you're in a situation where your budget can only allow you to have X artists on the STO live team, but thanks to the C-Store revenue you're able to have X+1 artists instead. But, in that case I would imagine the extra artist would have to be working exclusively on C-Store content to justify the cost of his position (at which point both players and Cryptic are at least breaking even, as they spend more money to get more content without losing any in the process). Is that what you're trying to say?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
07-25-2010, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
Maybe you can explain this a bit more, because I'm confused as to how exactly the C-Store helps offset costs in this situation. Maybe if you had said "..provides an opportunity to generate additional revenue we otherwise wouldn't have access to..", the statement would have made more sense. But offset costs? I'm confused. Let's talk about your example:

First, the artists are working on salary, so it's not like the C-Store funds are used to pay out some overtime fund that compensates these artists for working on the Excelsior during non-work hours. Maybe you're suggesting the C-Store funds go towards buying the artists involved some pizzas for working after-hours, but that would have to be one expensive pizza bill to justify the extra money the C-Store sale is generating.

Second, when you place the artists on a C-Store project, you're removing them from working on non-C-Store content (that is, "free" content you consider part of our monthly subscriptions). So, in essence, the more C-Store projects an artists works on, the less "free" content they're able to generate for us. So, in the end it seems like we get less free content, but additional C-Store content, and Cryptic gets more money, and we lose more money. I can definitely see how that's a win for Cryptic, but not for us.

The only real way I can see the C-Store offsetting costs is if you're in a situation where your budget can only allow you to have X artists on the STO live team, but thanks to the C-Store revenue you're able to have X+1 artists instead. But, in that case I would imagine the extra artist would have to be working exclusively on C-Store content to justify the cost of his position (at which point both players and Cryptic are at least breaking even, as they spend more money to get more content without losing any in the process). Is that what you're trying to say?
Great post. I've said the same thing myself, but not as articulate.

However, is it actually a win for Cryptic? There's no such thing as a free lunch, and Cryptic's unreasonable pricing structure is definitely losing them customers and putting a big dent in the company's reputation. Things aren't quite as simple as C-store = more money for Cryptic.

That being said, I do appreciate your drive to get more items that would usually only be on the C-store also available in-game. What I don't appreciate --and judging by this thread other people don't either-- are the transparent ******** excuses for Cryptic's behavior that don't make a lick of sense when subjected to critical thought. Again, I'm glad you're pushing for change, but please don't treat us like idiots.
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