Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 141
07-25-2010, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I'm not sure who ever said that... but I'm certainly on record as stating that the C-Store is one way for our team to justify additional resources to get fan requested one-off items into the game.

Most (if not all) assets used in the game come directly from our content needs.

For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.

Otherwise... you'd end up waiting until we were making content that required an Excelsior ....

Thats how I view the picture... and I for one never forget that you are paying a subscription which is why our very humble small team works a ton of hours to continue to crank up updates.... "for free" (ie your subscription is paying for it)
So in short, we should all be greatful for the C-store becuase without it there would never be anything new because all the Dev's are too busy creating additional content which you claim is "free" but that our subscriptions pay for?

Does that about sums it up?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 142
07-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I'm not sure who ever said that... but I'm certainly on record as stating that the C-Store is one way for our team to justify additional resources to get fan requested one-off items into the game.

Most (if not all) assets used in the game come directly from our content needs.

For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.

Otherwise... you'd end up waiting until we were making content that required an Excelsior ....

Thats how I view the picture... and I for one never forget that you are paying a subscription which is why our very humble small team works a ton of hours to continue to crank up updates.... "for free" (ie your subscription is paying for it)
dstahl, I think you've been pretty cool. You're the only real "honcho" at Cryptic I have any respect for at all. I want to put that out there before I get into this.

You've had content that "required" an Excelsior this whole time. It's called Star Trek. Let's look at the canon ships that were in when STO shipped, shall we?

Miranda-class: This has been a ubiquitous ship in most of Star Trek since WoK. That was a good call.

Constitution-class: Logically, an outmoded design, but if we can accept the Miranda, we can accept this.
Cheyenne-class: Really? For the ONE canon cruiser we get at T3, you picked a ship that showed up for seconds in the BoBW graveyard sequence? Instead of one of several more well-known and loved designs (like the Excelsior), you picked a ship that you need a freaking FREEZE FRAME to even get a decent look at? Epic fail, Cryptic.
Galaxy-class: Obvious choice. Good deal
Sovereign-class: Same as above

Saber-class: Not too well known outside of the rare Trek battle scenes, but you don't have a lot of choices for Starfleet combat ships.
Akira-class: Same
Defiant-class: DS9. No more need be said.
Prometheus-class: Same as the other non-Defiant escorts

Nova-class: Mmkay... A ship design that showed up in a grand total of one Voyager two-parter. A dubious choice, but since the design is kind of cool, this is probably the least sketchy of the sketchy canon choices.
Olympic-class: One alternate future appearance, and some cameos in a few DS9 "we need more ship models for this battle scene" episodes. If you can bend Voyager as a "science ship" instead of a cruiser, you could have put the Nebula here with no issues and some happy fans.
Intrepid-class: Really behaved like a cruiser in the shows, but you don't see many dedicated "science ships" in the shows, because they would be boring.
Luna-class: Not technically canon, since it only appears in the books, but eh.

So in the final breakdown, escorts had decent choices of canon ships, but you made at least one mistake in the other two types that really should have been one of the ships people are asking for to begin with. The game already shipped with TWO Cryptic ships for every canon ship. Those 12 canon ships SHOULD have been chosen from the most well-known, and you didn't get that one all the way right.

I understand your ship-making resources are limited, but it is you (meaning Cryptic) that mis-allocated them on some bad ship choices in the first place. It is not the customers' fault that you made that poor choice. People have been telling you since way back in beta that you should have had the Excelsior and Nebula instead of some of the second and third string ships you have. Whether it was simply because you weren't listening, or because someone saw all that adoration for these ships as a chance to milk some money, I don't know. Either way, this is on Cryptic, not the players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 143
07-25-2010, 09:17 PM
I have to agree with the above, calling classic ships from the shows extra content is messed up. Stuff that appeared in the show isnt extra it should already be ingame for the most part. And ya the intrepid was a light blockade cruiser but science vessle is fine for it as it was meant to scout and return to fleet not fight on its own.


Cannon ships should be free, and saying you need more cash is a bit laughable, thats basicly saying you need cashgrabs to fund your crew of devs, and i know a lot of game modders who can whip out ships in a day or 2 that make the models in this game look like garbage. You guys fail to even aline the pylons and saucers on the models you have.

If this game just launched and is in such dire need of money for its own staff to do constant cash grabs like adding cannon ships then that is a hell of a bad sign. While ill agree an instance is content its hardly what people really call content new areas and quests are content in the true meaning as people do an instance a few times and get bored.

The devs made the same mistake as SWG, Lucas arts forced them to release way to early, atari did the same thing by promising a bonus by a certain release day no way a company will pass up extra money. Companys view mmos with the eh i can fix it later mindset. Quality products are what truely sell, take WoW for instance sure they have probs like everything but it sells and sells where as other MMOs fail right at launch cause of these key isssues get ignored.

More money over long time is better then cashgrabs that last a week.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 144
07-25-2010, 09:50 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 145
07-25-2010, 11:27 PM
Once again, it looks like Cryptic managed to try to put the flames out with gasoline. And, of course, it blew up in their faces.

I really dont know what else to say about the apprent lack of understanding by Cryptic as to why the player base is deeply upset. In hopes, one day they just may.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 146
07-26-2010, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
I'm not sure who ever said that... but I'm certainly on record as stating that the C-Store is one way for our team to justify additional resources to get fan requested one-off items into the game.

Most (if not all) assets used in the game come directly from our content needs.

For example - we have a new sector opening up, we need new a new villain group, they need their ships, their costumes, their interiors, exteriors ... etc..etc..etc... and perhaps they have special weapons or what have you...

So our team is focused on making all of that stuff... but then people ask us... "hey can we have the Excelsior pretty please?"

This leads to ... hmm.. we only have x number of ship artists... if we put it in the C-Store it will allow us to offset costs and get it to you sooner than later.

Otherwise... you'd end up waiting until we were making content that required an Excelsior ....

Thats how I view the picture... and I for one never forget that you are paying a subscription which is why our very humble small team works a ton of hours to continue to crank up updates.... "for free" (ie your subscription is paying for it)
I'm not happy with this explanation. You had plenty of time to put the canon ships in before launch. Before launch you got feedback on the newly designed ship classes, and that was not too great. Yet, you created more and more of the less liked stuff. Frankly, it should have been obvious to get at least the TNG-Era ships all into the game to start with. Instead we have an armada of awkward looking vessels. So, I do not agree on the fact, that you could not realize the models with your regular resources. You had the resources to do the ships, but decided to create ones, not liked by the community. Bad call. Should not be our concern.

The second reason I really disapprove with the decision to put these things on the C-Store is that you guys asked for our input what ships you should implement. As that was a business decision, that poll should have awarded C-Points. But it did not and it was not transparent at the time, that we were asked "For what ships would you most likely spend extra credit on the C-Store?" in reality. Frankly, I will not participate in any more polls to help you guys make money, if I do not get something in return.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I really do not like how this one turned out.

Regards,
Rachel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 147
07-26-2010, 02:17 AM
I'm surprised at all the ruckus centered around dstahl's even-handed, plain English, and practical response.

If a mission is featuring things, the developers generate the art assets for it.

If nothing in the current pipeline features a 70+ year-old vessel, the c-store is one of a few methods to justify a few hours to create it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 148
07-26-2010, 02:45 AM
It comes down to one thing for me:

How long does the enjoyment increase from a c-store purchase actually last ? So i go and buy a costume pack, thatīs nice.

I log on one of my Admirals and redesign his outlook including BOīs. Unfortunately i still have only my daily to do. So while i like the fact that my toon is customized like i want him to, i still havenīt anything to do.

I guess there would be far less outcry over every single move Cryptic makes without the gaping content hole.

And letīs face it, we Star Trek fans are quite demanding and mostly knowledgable about our Trek. Itīs just unreasonable to expect everything to pop up after 6 months.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 149
07-26-2010, 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormShade
I have to disagree with that statement. We've made 3 updates including new content to the game since launch, and are about to launch another one. Of those updates, none of them have had any extra cost to you. Seasons 1, 1.1, 1.2, and 2, are all updates which included new content to Star Trek Online at no additional cost to you.

Thanks,

Stormshade
Which we already paid for when we purchased the game.

Thanks for proving our point,

Themagikz
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 150
07-26-2010, 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themagikz View Post
Which we already paid for when we purchased the game.

Thanks for proving our point,

Themagikz
and he spewed "no cost to you " twice in that statement.... I wonder if they think we are retarded ?

.
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