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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
07-15-2010, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
It's NOT switching bfrom "Everything Account Wide" to "Everything Per Character" at all. Seriously, the ONLY things that are character only atm (aside from renames and respecs which do make sense; and which other MMOs charge $15.00 per character on - WoW in particular) at of today are:

Extra BO slots (and BOs DO take up a fair amout of storage space so $2.50 a pop imo is reasonable)
Extra Ship slots (see above)
Extra Costume slots (and on this one I actually agree - it shopuld be account with as costume data ain't that much)

EVERYTHING ELSE is STILL account wide. So sorry, I don't see hoe 3 new items that are per character suddenly = EVERYTHING going per character.

IMO - people need to learn to pick their battles and noyt go into major nerdrage hyperbole on EVERY change Crytic does to the C-Store or the game - and lately no matter what they do, that's what's been happening. It's getting ridiculous.
What are you talking about? How does an extra bridge officer or ship slot take up a lot of storage space? How does an extra costume take up LESS space than a ship slot? Let me try to state why I bring it up because I've seen this and similar used as reasons and it doesn't make sense to me.

There are limited amount of configurations for all three things, ship configurations are probably the smallest of the lot. You don't store the whole ship on the server, the model you see in game is rendered on your computer and other people's computers if they're near you. They're stored as options from the limited configuration on the server in a huge database of everything.

If we were talking about ultra high configuration options I might see it as having an impact on a database *if* it was to be pushed out to every player but let's be honest here, ships have very little options in configuration. Hull, nacelles, pylons, neck, saucer section and on a few ships there are missions pods, extra nacelles and other things I may have forgotten. All that might be stored as simple as possible, such as T5 AC H1 S1 P1 N1 Nk1 there would be additional information for colours, patterns and items fitted but that's about all that will be stored. I'm simplifying it but I think you get the idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
07-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
I'll give you as much time as you need to think up a retort. You can even edit it into that post so the delay isn't as obvious.

Btw, do you have anything to actually say about the topic of this thread? I'm starting to suspect that I'm feeding a troll.
Just because identical uniforms is boring doesn't mean Star Trek is boring; it means identical uniforms are boring. It has nothing to do with how much one enjoys or can be immersed in any Star Trek game. I've never taken a logic class and even I can see that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
07-15-2010, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_gin_time_again View Post
.


hehe....even missed the funny-azz hentai joke...
I love my hen.. in a tie. I'm just here trying to class up the joint
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
07-15-2010, 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diluant
anyhoo, there is also a difference between saying you will add things, and then jacking up the price for said items and creating a tier of less product for more money. Also, adding more and more things as to scare people into thinking EVERYTHING will be there one day (lets not go to coments on f2p), and you have a storm brewing.

If you want to look at it and see rosy things, fine. Then that is your choice. Others see the real world and business dealings.
I am seeing this as business dealings. As I said, if no one buys these services at the current pricing, I'm sure they'll drop it, again, to maximize their profits. That's how real world business dealings work. You offer a product or service. When, as in this case, the product or service has no intrinsic value, you price it based on demand (i.e. how much people will pay for it). If everyone bought these for all of their characters within the first 24 hours they were available, they'd probably conclude that they could have priced them higher. If no one bought these at all for weeks after release, they'd probably conclude that they priced them too high.

The way each of us participates in that real world business process is by not buying them if we think they aren't worth the money, or buying them if we do.

'Fear' is irrational. People have been running around saying 'The Sky is Falling' on these forums since before release. Recent C-Store releases are not the 'cause' of irrational worry and fear, they're just occasions for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
07-15-2010, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
I am seeing this as business dealings. As I said, if no one buys these services at the current pricing, I'm sure they'll drop it, again, to maximize their profits. That's how real world business dealings work. You offer a product or service. When, as in this case, the product or service has no intrinsic value, you price it based on demand (i.e. how much people will pay for it). If everyone bought these for all of their characters within the first 24 hours they were available, they'd probably conclude that they could have priced them higher. If no one bought these at all for weeks after release, they'd probably conclude that they priced them too high.

The way each of us participates in that real world business process is by not buying them if we think they aren't worth the money, or buying them if we do.

'Fear' is irrational. People have been running around saying 'The Sky is Falling' on these forums since before release. Recent C-Store releases are not the 'cause' of irrational worry and fear, they're just occasions for it.
Thing is, this isn't exactly ethical. it means that you can't re-roll or you lose those items and have to either purchase more character slots or you lose the items you bought for only that character. People re-roll, it is all part of the game. The other thing is that you can't bleed your customer base so much that they not only won't spend more money, they won't even spend what they are currently spending.

This move is nothing more than dirty naked greed on Cryptic's part. Saying that it is Atari's fault is disingenuous, Atari owns the game, Cryptic operates it and they have to have a say in how it is run regardless of who owns it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
07-15-2010, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
'Fear' is irrational. People have been running around saying 'The Sky is Falling' on these forums since before release. Recent C-Store releases are not the 'cause' of irrational worry and fear, they're just occasions for it.
tomato/tomato (imagine saying it different)

fear is not irrational. Maybe I am afraid of being eaten by one of those super huge pythons people keep as pets and let loose one day (like after they lose their job at the gas station and can't afford to feed it). That isn't irrational, as one of those suckers could gobble me up in no time, as I am rather on the skinny side..one gulp may do it... actually maybe two.

Point is, fear is what keeps us alive and vigilant. Without it, I may walk through that tall grass by the trailer-park...and heck, even with no snakes, what if I get a tick... heck no. fear is rational.

Now that we established that, lets ask cryptic/atari to crack open their books and see what we are dealing with. Let us validate who is right, cause if you want proof, it is in a little shop in California. Until then, stop trying to prove that everyone else is wrong and you are right. It is just false flag operations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
07-15-2010, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
Thing is, this isn't exactly ethical. it means that you can't re-roll or you lose those items and have to either purchase more character slots or you lose the items you bought for only that character. People re-roll, it is all part of the game. The other thing is that you can't bleed your customer base so much that they not only won't spend more money, they won't even spend what they are currently spending.

This move is nothing more than dirty naked greed on Cryptic's part. Saying that it is Atari's fault is disingenuous, Atari owns the game, Cryptic operates it and they have to have a say in how it is run regardless of who owns it.
How is it unethical? They're telling you, going into it, exactly what they're going to give you for your money. If you pay the money, and they give you exactly what they told you they would give you, how is that unethical? If you think, because of re-rolling, it isn't worth it...then don't buy it. But offering a service with terms that don't perfectly suit you isn't an ethical violation...its just offering a service with terms that don't perfectly suit you. As I said, I have no use for these services, so I won't be buying them either.

And talking about 'greed' in this context is just naive. Cryptic is a corporation. They exist to make the maximum amount of money possible for their parent company, Atari, and Atari's shareholders. That's not greed, its capitalism.

You can argue that they're being short-sighted. You can argue that some other strategy would increase their profits more than this strategy will. But calling them 'greedy' is frankly just silly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
07-15-2010, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diluant
Now that we established that, lets ask cryptic/atari to crack open their books and see what we are dealing with. Let us validate who is right, cause if you want proof, it is in a little shop in California. Until then, stop trying to prove that everyone else is wrong and you are right. It is just false flag operations.
Since debating the nature of fear is off-topic, I'll stick to the thread. If you want a philosophical debate, we can take it to Ten Forward.

How is me trying to prove myself right without access to Atari's books any different that you trying to prove yourself right without access to Atari's books? How is your argument not 'false flag operations'?

And btw, according to Atari's last financial report, Cryptic is its only profitable division, with the vast lion's share of those profits coming from STO. So what information we do have from Atari's books supports my contentions, not yours.

But, if you want to put our discussion on hold until Atari's next report comes out, I'll stop arguing my side if you stop arguing yours.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 119
07-15-2010, 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
How is it unethical? They're telling you, going into it, exactly what they're going to give you for your money. If you pay the money, and they give you exactly what they told you they would give you, how is that unethical? If you think, because of re-rolling, it isn't worth it...then don't buy it. But offering a service with terms that don't perfectly suit you isn't an ethical violation...its just offering a service with terms that don't perfectly suit you. As I said, I have no use for these services, so I won't be buying them either.

And talking about 'greed' in this context is just naive. Cryptic is a corporation. They exist to make the maximum amount of money possible for their parent company, Atari, and Atari's shareholders. That's not greed, its capitalism.

You can argue that they're being short-sighted. You can argue that some other strategy would increase their profits more than this strategy will. But calling them 'greedy' is frankly just silly.
There is a difference between profit and naked greed. I absolutely do not begrudge a healthy profit, I do begrudge naked greed. There is also a difference between maximizing said profits and bleeding the public dry, this move is an attempt to bleed the user base dry. I have never before listened to those doomsayers claiming that Cryptic/Atari are trying to suck up as much money as possible before folding the game but this kind of crap makes me a bit concerned about their behavior.

I have a lifetime sub so I believed enough in the product to outlay a fairly large amount of cash on the game, I also regularly purchase from the C-Store. I will not be purchasing these things for single characters because, as of now, I have 8 chars online and 11 free slots, at 400cp/ character, it is not economically feasable. Also the fact is, they had to write additional code to make this possible which is what called the company ethics into question for me. It is far easier to write code for an entire account than it is to write code to lock purchases into each individual character slot. Think about it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 120
07-15-2010, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
There is a difference between profit and naked greed. I absolutely do not begrudge a healthy profit, I do begrudge naked greed. There is also a difference between maximizing said profits and bleeding the public dry, this move is an attempt to bleed the user base dry. I have never before listened to those doomsayers claiming that Cryptic/Atari are trying to suck up as much money as possible before folding the game but this kind of crap makes me a bit concerned about their behavior.

I have a lifetime sub so I believed enough in the product to outlay a fairly large amount of cash on the game, I also regularly purchase from the C-Store. I will not be purchasing these things for single characters because, as of now, I have 8 chars online and 11 free slots, at 400cp/ character, it is not economically feasable. Also the fact is, they had to write additional code to make this possible which is what called the company ethics into question for me. It is far easier to write code for an entire account than it is to write code to lock purchases into each individual character slot. Think about it.
I think the argument you're wanting to make is, "These services are priced way too high. If they were priced more reasonably, or redone to be account-wide, they'd be more popular options and in the long run, Cryptic would make more money."

If you say something reasonable sounding like that, Cryptic will be more inclined to listen to you than if it sounds like you're accusing them of unethical business practices and moral corruption.

Just saying.
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