Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
07-20-2010, 04:07 PM
mmm... someone tell me how the Excelsior class makes sense as a tier-5?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
07-20-2010, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancemikemack View Post
Any one know when these ships come out and a cost?
I checked out the calender, but yesterday was the last day for the C store updates. Next month?
No one knows for sure. From the last Cryptic response I saw, it sounded like the delay was over finalizing ship abilities and possibly implementing a tier 3 free version of the ship to go with the tier 5 C store version.

As far as cost goes the best I could guess currently is somewhere inbetween the cost of the original Constitution and the Galaxy X. I would guess it would be alot closer to the Constitution price than the Galaxy X price myself.
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# 33
07-20-2010, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
mmm... someone tell me how the Excelsior class makes sense as a tier-5?
How makes it sense my rusty Miranda class can fight off two Negh'Vars easily without any problems? Canon in this game has recently rated being "Soft-Canon", so they can easily say the Excelsior just underwent a major internal refit. Besides that, there are already so many un-canon things in this game, having more options at T5 is the very least of them.

Seriously, people keep requesting "iconic" ships for endgame - me too. The Excelsior is well known from the movies, from TNG over DS9 to Voyager. It was present in virtually every fleet battle the Federation too place in. With the Lakota refit it was demonstrated the Excelsior is far from being outdated. Also I'd simply love to see much more variety in terms of ships out there in STO space. Currently there is no such variety out there. Do you remember any combat where only Galaxys, Defiants and Sovereign took place? I sure don't, there was always a broad mixup of ships included. I say Cryptic should recreate this, and many people are requesting it too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
07-20-2010, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teslanar
How makes it sense my rusty Miranda class can fight off two Negh'Vars easily without any problems? Canon in this game has recently rated being "Soft-Canon", so they can easily say the Excelsior just underwent a major internal refit. Besides that, there are already so many un-canon things in this game, having more options at T5 is the very least of them.

Seriously, people keep requesting "iconic" ships for endgame - me too. The Excelsior is well known from the movies, from TNG over DS9 to Voyager. It was present in virtually every fleet battle the Federation too place in. With the Lakota refit it was demonstrated the Excelsior is far from being outdated. Also I'd simply love to see much more variety in terms of ships out there in STO space. Currently there is no such variety out there. Do you remember any combat where only Galaxys, Defiants and Sovereign took place? I sure don't, there was always a broad mixup of ships included. I say Cryptic should recreate this, and many people are requesting it too.
I can agree with this, canon regarding ship combat and tiers has already gone to hell in this game so I dont see why not. More variety at T5 the better...like how in the Dominion War Starfleet has varied fleets of ships with Excelsiors, Mirandas and Galaxy class cruisers too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
07-20-2010, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgomir View Post
I can agree with this, canon regarding ship combat and tiers has already gone to hell in this game so I dont see why not. More variety at T5 the better...like how in the Dominion War Starfleet has varied fleets of ships with Excelsiors, Mirandas and Galaxy class cruisers too.
I suppose you guys are right; the imagery that can be achieved in-game from having more variety present at once is more important than the ships' relative strengths being consistent with canon, since it's not consistent in that manner anyway as is

Bring out the Nebula and Ambassador
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
07-21-2010, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
mmm... someone tell me how the Excelsior class makes sense as a tier-5?
It doesn´t.

At all.

But trying to talk sense into museum ship lovers is futile. Your individual immersion problems and canon doubts will be ruthlessly ignored and ridiculed. Prepare to be assimilated. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
07-21-2010, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
It doesn´t.

At all.

But trying to talk sense into museum ship lovers is futile. Your individual immersion problems and canon doubts will be ruthlessly ignored and ridiculed. Prepare to be assimilated. :p
It makes absolutely perfect sense; I'm not sure why you don't think so.

The Lakota was a refit Excelsior with improved weaponry and it took on the Defiant -- with a vastly less experienced crew and with the captain of the Lakota refusing to use Quantum Torpedoes (and who knows what else). The Defiant is a Tier4 vessel, it makes sense that the Lakota refit would be also Tier4. Considering that the old Tier4 ships are getting refit upgrades, it makes sense that in a time of war that Starfleet would further refit the workhorse of their fleet to be up to par, especially if they're doing so with these "aging" Galaxies, Intrepids, and Defiants.

You may not like the Excelsior, but there's absolutely no logical reason why it doesn't have a place as a Tier5 ship, especially considering how successful of a design the Excelsior is -- thoroughly proven in countless missions and battles, and completely reliable. There's a reason it's called the "workhorse" of the fleet.

As others point out, we fly around in Miranda and Constitution class Cruisers in the early ranks of the game, and how old are they? Yet we're able to slug it out against much newer Negh'var Battle Cruisers, not to mention countless other ships. It's not like Star Trek Online rigidly conforms to canon to begin with; a Tier 5 Excelsior not only makes sense but hardly bends the story of the game we play, either. I'm not sure why this particular suggestion breaks your immersion, but situations already in-game do not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
mmm... someone tell me how the Excelsior class makes sense as a tier-5?
Personally, I would adjust rewards (skill points earned, merits earned, medals earned) to reflect the ship you are commanding. Commanding Refits with inferior base stats compared to standard Tier 5's would yield greater rewards in all things (PVE and PVP). Sure it's going to be tougher, but with the help of others, it could be more rewarding. Who knows? It could even promote teaming in PVE! Don't send an Excelsior to do a Sovereign's work, right? Send 2 or 3 instead!

Tier 5 refits would retain their basic ship stats (it's pretty hard to add hull points and crew compliment to a design that doesn't get any bigger).

Weapon slots can scale up to Tier 5 standards since there's no shortage of weapon ports on any Star Trek model. Perhaps consoles, too.

Bridge Officer slots would accommodate whatever is appropriate at Tier 5 (It's not like your Commander Science Officer demands luxurious crew quarters only a Star Cruiser could provide).

So to reiterate, refits (and maybe all lower tiers) should provide a greater challenge at Tier 5, complimented with greater rewards for their accomplishments. Yeah Sulu's got a bigger, badder ship, but Kirk is more than capable of holding his own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
07-21-2010, 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvinn
mmm... someone tell me how the Excelsior class makes sense as a tier-5?
They started buliding new Excelsiors 10 years ago. It basically kept only the frame of the ship, while all internals were upgraded to technology that was developed in the past 40 years.

Alternatively:
The Excelsior frame was always designed for a high degree of adaptability and modularity. When the initial Transwarp Drive design failed, this was a disappointment only for the transwarp R&D team, the ship itself was easily outfitted with state of the art conventional warp drives.
Every major ship designed after the Excelsior provided similar adaptability. Ambassador, Galaxy, Nova, Intpreid, they were all designed with this type of modularity in mind.
The high adaptability of Starfleet ships of the line has given them an excellent reputation - and it has been not just used by the large engineering design teams, but also by each individual crew to adapt to the unexpected.
Lt. Commander
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# 40 Excelsior Design
07-21-2010, 02:37 AM
If and when we do get the Excelsior Class, I want the modified design. Like the Excelsior we saw in "Paradise Lost" and "For the Uniform" on DS9.
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