Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Suricata,

I appreciate that effort, I really do, but that post is exactly why Klingons don't try to come to this forum to talk to Cryptic. It is very difficult without moderation to have a productive post about the Klingon faction with Cryptic on this forum because most players don't play Klingon every day and simply misunderstand/confuse the issues.

For example, I see two regular daily Klingon players so far in the first 19 pages of that thread: KillingMeSoftly and Moonseye. If there are more - shame on me, and I hope they introduce themselves.

Here are a few points that appear misunderstood about the Klingon faction issues.

1) Klingons are not looking for equal content, they are looking for equal treatment by Cryptic. Cryptic is effectively engaged into the needs and desires of the everyday Federation player, but the every day Klingon player feels like daily Federation players who have a Klingon alt character have more representation with Cryptic regarding the direction of the Klingon Faction than every day Klingon players do.

2) There is a bit of psychology here. Since release the Klingon faction has a community that knows a unique playstyle from the Federation. Klingon players require teamwork to level, because without other players PvP matches take forever or are miserable. Klingon gameplay is almost entirely competitive in this team context. What aspect of Season 2 content is 1) team centric or 2) competitive?

In other words, Cryptic has given Klingons, who only know one style of gameplay, a ton of content that isn't anything like the Klingon gameplay style (admittedly, the artwork throughout on the Klingon side of Tribble is fantastic). Season 2 makes Klingon gameplay the same as Federation gameplay - quasi competitive solo activity in game where the player has no control over the storyline. This style of gameplay is all most Fed players know, so those Feds don't see how this would impact a community that plays Klingon because they are used to a different playstyle.

For the daily Klingon - the content doesn't register as being for them, because it has nothing in common with the way they have played since release.

3) Which leads to the next point. Klingons want content that is unique and distinct from Federation gameplay. That gameplay would be competitive and team centric, and I note that it does not have to be Player vs Player in the limited sense current PvP is. For example, a Targ hunting competition where the group of 5 is competing against one another for the biggest Targ or the most Targ is a good example. bat'leth tournaments are another example where a "mission" could instead be 16 players fight until there is a winner. Sector map PvP is great, but if you want Klingons to be unique from Federation gameplay - design content around the gameplay style of the community. As it is in Season 2.0, all this new PvE content is simply Federation gameplay style content that makes the Klingons more like the Feds.

I don't believe Fed style PvE content for Klingons will be good for the game long term. By making each faction have a unique game style of play, it opens up Romulans to being sneaky, Feds being explorers, Klingons being warriors, etc... Instead of everyone the same with a different skin.

And this should, in part, explain why Klingons are unhappy with Season 2.0. This is not about having equality of content, it has everything to do with the inequity of treatment by Cryptic to their existing Klingon playerbase. Klingon players have no voice - I know the dozen most helpful Klingons on Tribble, and with the exception of Edgecase I doubt Cryptic could name 5 Klingon daily players. While the community representation concept died as quickly as it arrived, the fact is Cryptic is actively engaged with Federation communities outside the forums - and the daily Klingon Empire leaders and active gamers have no meaningful representation in game, out of game, or on the forums.

Federation players who want Klingon new content and game play to match their PvE playstyle - please stop and consider the impact of that to the existing Klingon community and on future factions. I don't think it is surprising that the Klingon community is leaving in mass, after all, they have done everything else up to this point as a community group. The further we go down the road of new content matching Federation solo content gameplay, I fear the Klingon Empire will always be an incomplete faction where the majority of members are alt characters for Fed players - instead of a thriving independent faction unique within the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
07-19-2010, 08:56 AM
Well ,speaking for myself,

I do want the klingon PvE content, and its beautifull on tribble.
I do want a storyline of our own that we can follow if we chose to do so.
I don't care much about PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
07-19-2010, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
For the daily Klingon
You still play Klingon on a daily basis? Wow, I feel for you. Why do you want to torture yourself? You do know that Cryptic has pretty much ignored/insulted the Klingon players ever since closed beta, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
07-19-2010, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idali
Well ,speaking for myself,

I do want the klingon PvE content, and its beautifull on tribble.
I do want a storyline of our own that we can follow if we chose to do so.
I don't care much about PvP.

Reversed

I care more about PVP than PVE. The latter is fairly shameful at the moment.

@Darksided

Very nicely worded Dark, I couldn’t agree more!

Oh and I am on page 18 :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
07-19-2010, 09:04 AM
The dev response to the Klingon issues can be found on Tribble right now.

40 kills in Cracked Planet maps.

See. You folks are making a difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
07-19-2010, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Duck
Oh and I am on page 18 :p
Then I really suck - missing someone in my own fleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
07-19-2010, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
The dev response to the Klingon issues can be found on Tribble right now.

40 kills in Cracked Planet maps.

See. You folks are making a difference.
Edited: Superchum there is no dev response. This is a PvP issue, not a Klingon specific issue. Stay on topic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
07-19-2010, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
The dev response to the Klingon issues can be found on Tribble right now.

40 kills in Cracked Planet maps.

See. You folks are making a difference.
*just re-read what you typed never mind*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
07-19-2010, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksided View Post
I don't believe Fed style PvE content for Klingons will be good for the game long term. By making each faction have a unique game style of play, it opens up Romulans to being sneaky, Feds being explorers, Klingons being warriors, etc... Instead of everyone the same with a different skin.
Sorry, but that argument just doesnt work. What makes each faction different and unique is their STORY, not whether they PvE or PvP. The things you just mentioned(exploration, combat, "sneakiness") are STORY elements, not gameplay mechanics. And besides, going by your logic what would the Roms be? Feds are ALREADY PvE and PvP, while Klingons are pretty much only PvP. If those are the only two equations your working with, the Roms would have to be like one or the other of the already existing factions when it comes to PvE and PvP. Saying that one faction is just a "PvP faction" is just a lame excuse to not have to make as content for them as another faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
07-19-2010, 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Sorry, but that argument just doesnt work. What makes each faction different and unique is their STORY, not whether they PvE or PvP. The things you just mentioned(exploration, combat, "sneakiness") are STORY elements, not gameplay mechanics. And besides, going by your logic what would the Roms be? Feds are ALREADY PvE and PvP, while Klingons are pretty much only PvP. If those are the only two equations your working with, the Roms would have to be like one or the other of the already existing factions when it comes to PvE and PvP. Saying that one faction is just a "PvP faction" is just a lame excuse to not have to make as content for them as another faction.
The Romulans would be what they are right now, which is non existent. Cryptic can't even come up with an effort to bring the Klingons somewhat up to par, so from this point of view it makes no sense at all to implement another faction.

On a side note, I am a Daily Klingon that has posted in the above mentioned post as well as in many others. While I agree that we need more PvE content, for the sole purpose of making the level grind somewhat enjoyable, my main concern is the addition of refit and possibly new ships for Klingons.

While I can see this is not necessarily on top of the Devs list, I also believe that we kind of earned it simply for the fact that we are still here.After all designing a refit ship can't be that difficult, since Dstahl posted somewhere that 2 of the Federation refits were done overnight.
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