Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Let's not forget EVE Online has a hybrid-esque model with the Game Time Cards payed for using in game isk.

The game gets new content often. The game hasn't suffered.

Why? Probably because not everybody has the in game money to buy the GTCs. Yet the option is open for end gamers who have established themselves. This keeps the end gamers in the game. If all the endgamers left then the game would suffer.

I think its a pretty good business tactic. Now STO can't do that quite yet seeing as we don't have a player run economy.

But...hopefully we will in the near future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-19-2010, 09:06 PM
Do Cryptic really need to go F2P at all? I think all they truly need to do is dish out constant updates of both content and C-Store items and gradually lower the prices of subscriptions, both lifetime and monthly and they'd already offer the best of both worlds to who ever is interested, and I think many more would be interested in STO if they could pay $200 (or even less) for a lifetime membership rather than $300.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-19-2010, 09:09 PM
Right now I'm not getting my $15 worth and I feel that the sub PLUS this C-Store craziness is too much. Perhaps they can lower it to like $10 a month....

Though I pay yearly so it's not like I'm paying $15 a month.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-19-2010, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I'll have to dig up the PDF from Paiz's (Turbine exec) keynote address on switching to F2P/P2P hybrid. It's quite astounding as to how many players they've reclaimed and the triple digit growth they've experienced. In terms of profits, F2P actually earns them more than P2P (ironic, isn't it?).

Funnily enough, other industries have Free/Pay hybrid models. Nine Inch Nails released a 4-disc album (1st disc was free, you could buy the whole thing for under 5 dollars) and released a deluxe version for those that wanted. Millions downloaded the free album off Amazon.com and the limited, super-deluxe edition made a cool million (USD). The kicker? The four-disc album featured no lyrics - it was all instrumental/ambient work (like a film score).

It's an interesting approach: though market considerations are quite different in the music industry than the video game industry.

DDO's quality is quite high (now) compared to many P2P options (and especially compared to DDO before the switch).

They've had five major updates since going F2P/P2P hybrid.

Let's take a look at one component of one of those updates:
That's just apart of Update 5 - which also included new missions, QoL fixes, and new feats/options for classes.

What's intriguing is that DDO is as heavily instanced as STO (perhaps more so due to the wide range of difficulty settings spawning different instances).

It's intriguing and I'm sure Cryptic is watching these changes like the rest of the industry is.

(It's a shame games like Vanguard won't be getting this treatment - SOE just laid off the rest of the development team there).
ah, ok. I may have to take another look at DDO when schools out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-20-2010, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
I can get onboard the hybrid model, I can't get onboard the free 2 play one, because as many have said it creates player classes divided by monetary means. Splitting your players into RL social classes doesn't sound good IMO. At the moment the C-store is for the most part cosmetic. I debate on the Gal-X until the new ships come out, then it becomes moot.

Millions of players would bring in lots of money for development, true, but I don't want the WoW forums in all their horror. I like our forums, even though we rage. I'm sure thats understandable. It's hard to feel like you have a say, when your drowned out by the trolls. I, like many, can't take our money elsewhere and use that as our say, so we come to the forums. I'd hate to see a dedicated lifer forum because there are many great non-lifer players. Just my opinion.
ok so you rather sto die a slow painful death because you don't want idiots on the forums.

1) theres an ignore option

2) forums don't affect enjoyment in game.

id rather they go with WHATEVER model gives them the most revenue for content and future updates. if thats sub fine, if thats f2p/hybrid fine.

i dont see how rich players can enjoy a game more. the majority of gamers DO NOT like subscription based games. Ive read some research on it, but the numbers playing mmo's compared to game sales is so small.
the casual non-mmoers look at ALL mmoers as being hardcore because they pay a monthly for the game.

and indeed a monthly sub was a big gripe on alot of star trek gamer fans who grew up on the older pc games and it was alien to them.

as shown by darren and as shown by the DDO dev team f2p can work wonders.

if anything players with less money can now play the game, since theres no subscription fee, it cant only cater to rich people.

like i said rather than see sto die a slow bleeding sub death, i hope before it comes to that that while theres enough of a dedicated user base left that the devs see fit to do something about the payment model to get more revenue and player base, after all its supposed to be a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-20-2010, 06:07 AM
i dont care what they do as long as the game is stable, has funds to develop and is a lively place to be
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
ok so you rather sto die a slow painful death because you don't want idiots on the forums.

1) theres an ignore option

2) forums don't affect enjoyment in game.

id rather they go with WHATEVER model gives them the most revenue for content and future updates. if thats sub fine, if thats f2p/hybrid fine.

i dont see how rich players can enjoy a game more. the majority of gamers DO NOT like subscription based games. Ive read some research on it, but the numbers playing mmo's compared to game sales is so small.
the casual non-mmoers look at ALL mmoers as being hardcore because they pay a monthly for the game.

and indeed a monthly sub was a big gripe on alot of star trek gamer fans who grew up on the older pc games and it was alien to them.

as shown by darren and as shown by the DDO dev team f2p can work wonders.

if anything players with less money can now play the game, since theres no subscription fee, it cant only cater to rich people.

like i said rather than see sto die a slow bleeding sub death, i hope before it comes to that that while theres enough of a dedicated user base left that the devs see fit to do something about the payment model to get more revenue and player base, after all its supposed to be a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
Well atm I have more fun on the forums than in the game. My fleet seems to be gone until S2 comes out. They see no point in the grinding of obsolete badges.

So your saying that the feedback of the players, the people who play the game, doesn't matter as long as cryptic gets as much money as possible? Odd, but w/e.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-20-2010, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
Ask yourself would sto do better with 1 million people, probably paying 5 dollars average a month on c store items?

or 50k people paying 15 dollars a month?
The answer is...both. You may not know what I'm talking about, but thats ok because I know there are plenty that do
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
ok so you rather sto die a slow painful death because you don't want idiots on the forums.

1) theres an ignore option

2) forums don't affect enjoyment in game.

id rather they go with WHATEVER model gives them the most revenue for content and future updates. if thats sub fine, if thats f2p/hybrid fine.

i dont see how rich players can enjoy a game more. the majority of gamers DO NOT like subscription based games. Ive read some research on it, but the numbers playing mmo's compared to game sales is so small.
the casual non-mmoers look at ALL mmoers as being hardcore because they pay a monthly for the game.

and indeed a monthly sub was a big gripe on alot of star trek gamer fans who grew up on the older pc games and it was alien to them.

as shown by darren and as shown by the DDO dev team f2p can work wonders.

if anything players with less money can now play the game, since theres no subscription fee, it cant only cater to rich people.

like i said rather than see sto die a slow bleeding sub death, i hope before it comes to that that while theres enough of a dedicated user base left that the devs see fit to do something about the payment model to get more revenue and player base, after all its supposed to be a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
It may work to get more money or may not I don't think any one is arguing that it is about the other pros and cons. You claim it wouldn't cater to the rich because there is no sub. I would argue it would because you would have a sub par game if you don't buy all the extras which would end up costing a lot more than a monthly fee. If you look at what they are already putting into the C-Store. Now imagine if this was their only way to get their money. Like I said before I think it would be more fair to kill the C-Store and raise the sub so every one has a good game not just the few who can spend 60 or so a month on the new content in order to keep up.
I cant say this is true with all F2P games but from the ones I have played it seems to attract worse players as well. A lot of people who just want a game to troll or children who cant get their card from their mom would join so I would say you have a lower quality player base. Also they would then be catering to the lowest common denominator. So you may get more players but the question is are they the kind we would want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-20-2010, 01:05 PM
Quote:
Not to mention the complete and utter bottoming out of cryptics reputation.

Going F2P also requires pandering to the lowest common denominator which would cause the quality of the new conetent to be lower.

In general this game would probably go from being complained about and ridiculed to pretty much forgotten.
This is my general belief as well. F2P will not be good for Cryptic and would hurt them within the marketplace. Who would trust them to make good product if they throw in the towel and go F2P?
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