Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 11
07-19-2010, 07:45 PM
STO is soft canon. Originally it was thought that STO would be canon according to the ones who study such things, but then it was clarified a few months ago that it was a misunderstanding and STO isn't canon. Which allows a lot more freedom for the dev's actually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-19-2010, 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
that makes it soft canon, just like CBS approved the books so those are soft canon. true canon is anything made in the films or show.
Right. The Destiny Trilogy eliminated the Borg in 2381.

STO still has them.

Which is more canon?
Lt. Commander
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# 13
07-19-2010, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gym_Quirk
Right. The Destiny Trilogy eliminated the Borg in 2381.

STO still has them.

Which is more canon?
Lower levels of Canon are not forced to be laterally consistent, as in the case of say Star Wars. It seems to be as long as a work is still in the spirit and thematics of Star Trek, it will be approved, but it doesn't have to regard other non film/television works.
Lt. Commander
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# 14
07-19-2010, 07:49 PM
No.

Star Wars has a specific set of catagories relating to their canon:

'Hard Canon' - Anything that never changes and is the primary source against which canon is compared. I.E The movies

'Soft Canon' - Related media, books and such that build on the Hard stuff. Incase of a conflict Hard canon trumps everything.
If a book says Luke Skywalker stubbed his toe when he was 5 but a hard canon source says he didnt. Book gets thrown under the bus.

'Everything else' - Games, anything else basically. Overridden if it contradicts the other too trump this.


Star Trek dosent have such a system to my knowledge.

As such the only canon = Movies, Series and what CBS specifically says IS canon. Even if they say it IS canon without any trump system there is no way to know what over-rules what.

Case in point: Several episodes show future versions of Star Trek some of which still is coming by STO time frame.

If STO contradicts that... does this mean events never happened ?
If not, why not ?

This brings us to the 'alternate reality' excuse which anyone looking at the slew of confusion caused by the CURRENT timeline fiasco will know is a disaster waiting to happen. Afterall, if we are in an alternate universe all bets are off on what can happen so Cryptic could magically make the Romulans join the Federation, the Borg suddenly become the good guys that save puppies from trees etc. Enterprise gets blown to bits by the floating sword of Khaless hitting the warp nacelle.

On the one hand it gives Cryptic complete free reign to make a Trek universe however they want.
On the other, CBS wont let that fly because it wouldnt take long for a 'free reign' party to deviate so much from Star Trek it no longer attracts Trek fans.

Personnally, I would love to come into a Star Trek game where the universe changes to be more realisting and dynamic but I suspect too many die hard trekies would throw a fit. STO cant even go on without getting a cloaking device for the Feds without folks going mental over canon treaties.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-19-2010, 07:49 PM
According to the official Star Trek website the definition for canon is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-19-2010, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Sheridan
No.

Star Wars has a specific set of catagories relating to their canon:

'Hard Canon' - Anything that never changes and is the primary source against which canon is compared. I.E The movies

'Soft Canon' - Related media, books and such that build on the Hard stuff. Incase of a conflict Hard canon trumps everything.
If a book says Luke Skywalker stubbed his toe when he was 5 but a hard canon source says he didnt. Book gets thrown under the bus.

'Everything else' - Games, anything else basically. Overridden if it contradicts the other too trump this.


Star Trek dosent have such a system to my knowledge.

As such the only canon = Movies, Series and what CBS specifically says IS canon. Even if they say it IS canon without any trump system there is no way to know what over-rules what.

Case in point: Several episodes show future versions of Star Trek some of which still is coming by STO time frame.

If STO contradicts that... does this mean events never happened ?
If not, why not ?

This brings us to the 'alternate reality' excuse which anyone looking at the slew of confusion caused by the CURRENT timeline fiasco will know is a disaster waiting to happen. Afterall, if we are in an alternate universe all bets are off on what can happen so Cryptic could magically make the Romulans join the Federation, the Borg suddenly become the good guys that save puppies from trees etc. Enterprise gets blown to bits by the floating sword of Khaless hitting the warp nacelle.

On the one hand it gives Cryptic complete free reign to make a Trek universe however they want.
On the other, CBS wont let that fly because it wouldnt take long for a 'free reign' party to deviate so much from Star Trek it no longer attracts Trek fans.

Personnally, I would love to come into a Star Trek game where the universe changes to be more realisting and dynamic but I suspect too many die hard trekies would throw a fit. STO cant even go on without getting a cloaking device for the Feds without folks going mental over canon treaties.
This made me lol!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-19-2010, 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
STO is soft canon. Originally it was thought that STO would be canon according to the ones who study such things, but then it was clarified a few months ago that it was a misunderstanding and STO isn't canon. Which allows a lot more freedom for the dev's actually.
True, and so long as the Dev's don't go too far with this freedom, say... make us fight the unicorn race from planet Rainbow, I think we'll be safe. (unless that was, of course, the secret project of season 3, then we're all doomed.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-19-2010, 07:53 PM
I say they should have redone all the ships and made it 200 years in the future, when androids are attacking a colony because they are tired of being named Jose and JoseB
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 19
07-19-2010, 07:56 PM
Also found this quote from Richard Arnold:

And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

This is from an interview in 1991. Even though Gene has passed away I think this still rings true today as it did back then.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-19-2010, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterArmaEnimSilentLeges View Post
Also found this quote from Richard Arnold:

And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.

This is from an interview in 1991. Even though Gene has passed away I think this still rings true today as it did back then.
Technically though there was a book that he accepted as canon, got into a fight with the writer who was a friend and then denounced it because of the fight.
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