Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-20-2010, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aris
You may want to catch up on some of what happened after Nemesis.
Nvm what happened in books or games,Data is dead because Spiner said that he is too old to continue playing Data and his opinion is that Data was best presented with a youthful appearance.So for the majority of the trekkies(not reading books or playing computer games) Data died in nemesis and remains dead forever.

(for the record this is my first star trek game and I never had a star trek book so until 2 months ago I was sure that Data is dead too,and for the rest of the world he is.This was Spiners decision)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Spiner
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-20-2010, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius39
First of all, screenwise they (including the actor himself) always intended to never have Data come back to tv or film, despite what these non-spiner and non-movie writers think.

Spiner worked with the script writers too deliberately kill Data, even though there is B4 with his memories now.

he wanted to close the book on data for himself and admitted he will never play Data.

Mostly because he's aging too much and that doesn't make sense for a droid.

So asking about a new actor for Data....is more likely than asking Spiner to do anything but voice overs.

Appearance wise I would say the guy that plays Sh*tbrick from American Pie minus a few facial pounds could pull off the appearance of the early days data.
Story was that just as they often use film budgets to build sets for use elsewhere, they did get enough CGI scans of Brent Spiner to continue Data either with a soundalike or without requiring him to do anything but voicework, had their been demand for more movies and the B4 situation was their built-in loophole.

Also, going by the books, B4's body now has Data's full brain, personality and advances whereas B4 has been transferred over to separate unit where he could exist as a hologram now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-20-2010, 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius39
First of all, screenwise they (including the actor himself) always intended to never have Data come back to tv or film, despite what these non-spiner and non-movie writers think.

Spiner worked with the script writers too deliberately kill Data, even though there is B4 with his memories now.

he wanted to close the book on data for himself and admitted he will never play Data.

Mostly because he's aging too much and that doesn't make sense for a droid.

So asking about a new actor for Data....is more likely than asking Spiner to do anything but voice overs.

Appearance wise I would say the guy that plays Sh*tbrick from American Pie minus a few facial pounds could pull off the appearance of the early days data.
I see but There is an episode ( I can't find the title) where Data goes and trial because some Scientist want to create More data for the Fed.

I mean they can kill data but we will always want a Soong type android.
Lt. Commander
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# 14
07-20-2010, 04:13 AM
About comics, books and computer games...

Rarely do anything that is when they are produced, considered canon or even looked back on, when people decide they want to make a new ST movie or series. Hence why I never consider them canon.

Also, lets look at the new Trek movie vs the Countdown comics.

The Comics are proven non-canon by the movie itself when Spock confirms in his mindmeld that he met Nero for the first time when Nero attacked Spock's ship. Go figure. He introduced himself as Nero to spock then and was just hateful vs spock for failing, hence 50% of the comics are already not canon.

So don;t be surprised if you ever see B4 on screen with the mentality of a five year old and they say that his Prositronic components could not advance enough to put up with 90% of data's memories. Then again it leads to the same line in nemesis when B4 was said to not be advanced enough for it.

In my opinion, I always take screen as canon and any book, game or tv show as entirely non-canon forever. No negotiation.

In my estimates, Data is dead, and B4 will never assimilate data's profile 100% A few songs and minor mannerisms at best.

Come on, who honestly believes Picard would stoop so low to such an unimportant and do nothing position as Ambassador to Vulcan? Really? One of the first founding races of the federation still needs an ambassador? At worst Picard would've retired, at best he wouldn't give up his seat on the enterprise.

About using CGI scans and such in film for Data? Really, thats just too much budget to waste on a TNG based trek film...honestly way too much of a waste of money. it is not as easy and cheap as people think to do so just for cameo purposes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 15
07-20-2010, 04:16 AM
I think they made a mistake in killing off Data and having his possible replacement still look like him. It doesn't really solve the problem, it just gives a way to bring back Data with the same actor as before.

Currently, no actor really comes to my mind to play Data. Maybe it should again be an actor with some comedic talent? I figure this type of characters is good at the "stoic"/"emotionless" character, at least in a likeable manner.
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# 16
07-20-2010, 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think they made a mistake in killing off Data and having his possible replacement still look like him. It doesn't really solve the problem, it just gives a way to bring back Data with the same actor as before.

Currently, no actor really comes to my mind to play Data. Maybe it should again be an actor with some comedic talent? I figure this type of characters is good at the "stoic"/"emotionless" character, at least in a likeable manner.
Imo we dont need new android in new series/films(at least not as 1 of the main characters).Would be pretty boring,Data already covered everything what can be said about androids.(I am not saying that it wont happen,but I find it very unlikely because it would be a bad decision for obvious reasons)
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# 17
07-20-2010, 04:23 AM
On another note:

With any movie, series or books series I read or watch where my favourite characters die, yes I might get a little emotional response about it, a little confliction, perhaps a tiny bit upset....but do you know what? I often find that reaction is a good reaction, I enjoy that feeling when a character close to me dies.

That is not sick, the sad is as good as the good when it comes to appreciation of art forms. The fact that it presents an emotional response is great. it's like adrenaline for me.

Do I ever find myself thinking, they must bring that character back, or they shouldn;' have killed him/her?

No.

In almost every case I find the world richer due to death. it makes continually reading and watching it more enjoyable, knowing no one is free from death. There can be consequence to action, hence, you get even more into it when the characters are facing adversity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-20-2010, 04:28 AM
No on should replace him simple as that as it would feel ackward and wierd.

As for when Data died I remember I was ****ed off big time the first time I saw it. Only time I came close to that feeling was when Dex died in DS9 (Jadzia one name prob incorrect though)
Lt. Commander
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# 19
07-20-2010, 04:41 AM
The worst thing they could have done is bring Data back. Let me explain::

Throughout STNG Data had been desiring to become more human and to understand what makes us human. As we all know, he ended up with emotions, fear, anger, love. Now when I say love we never saw him become romantically involved (post emotion chip) but we can gather that he loved his friends of the Enterprise so much that he was willing to die for them and for the good of the Federation.

Data, like us, was a one of a kind individual, there would never be another Data, like there will never be another me or any one of you. Data set self value aside, knowing that everything he was would be gone, forever, even with his memories in B4,,(kind of like watching home movies of someone that died , their image and experience is there but their gone) what made him 'Data' was gone.

Then someone takes the most human thing Data did and turns it into a cheap parlor trick. Data didn't die out of love for his friends, for the philosophy of "The good of the many outweigh the good of the few", it was merely a machine calculated means to turn a losing conflict into a chance for a win. Knowing that his memories were in B4, and that B4's positronic net had the means to evolve he knew he had nothing to lose as he'd be 'resurrected' in B4's body, even if he wasn't 100% what he was (of course he apparently was 100%).

The most human thing the character Data could have done, and they turned it into a meaningless 'tactic', gone was the 'one-shot deal' we get, the fear of dying being over come by courage. All Data did was make a few calculations on the probability that B4 would evolve and took his chances.

Cheap.
Lt. Commander
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# 20
07-20-2010, 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorrlan
Imo we dont need new android in new series/films(at least not as 1 of the main characters).Would be pretty boring,Data already covered everything what can be said about androids.(I am not saying that it wont happen,but I find it very unlikely because it would be a bad decision for obvious reasons)
well you say that then why have all the species again. just get new one.
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