Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
My opinion is that Science officers in escorts need to be nerfed immediately.

A science officer who knows what he's doing can use an escort in near god-like mode, no matter what he's facing. At first I had thought this only happened when I was facing a fleet, but tonight I saw it happen against only a single science officer in an escort. As everyone knows escorts can deal out an insane amount of DPS. So much so that the only defense is RSP (Reverse Shield Polarity). Even as an engineer using the following skills the longest I could last was fewer than 10 seconds:

1.) engineering team 1
2.) Auxiliary battery
3.) Auxiliary power to structural integrity III
4.) Hazard Emitters II
5.) Science Team 1
6.) Emergency power to auxiliary 1
7.) Auxiliary power to battery 1
8.) Rotate Shield Frequency
9.) Miracle worker II
10.) Reverse Shield Polarity 1 & 2

In every case no matter the combination of skills I was dead in fewer than 10 seconds. The science officer in the escort (it was 1v1, other players where at least 15km away) used scatter volley 2 and cannon rapid fire 2 or 3 with dual heavy anti-proton cannons.

The battle went as follows:

Volley 1 (1-2 seconds in): Science officer and I engage, Both of our shields go down in the initial exchange, I use rotate shield frequency and science team 1 to bring my shields back up some and harden them, he uses emergency power to shields 1 or 2 to bring his shields up some. His attack used scatter volley 1 or 2, mine used beam array overload 2 on a polaron beam array followed by a full 8-beam volley with emerg. power to weapons III.

Volley 2 (3-4 seconds in): Science officer continues using scatter volley 1 or 2 and manges to drop my shields again. By this time I have taken 20% damage to my hull. I use engineering team 1 to bring it back up and hit RSP 2. I continue firing with EPW III. His shields are low and he has taken approximately 8% damage to his hull.

Volley 3 (5-8 seconds in): I hit RSP II in order to prevent further hull damage (at only 48% remaining hull at this time. I then hit evasive maneuvers III in order to get within range for tractors. Science officer responds by hitting SNB. My shields DROP COMPLETELY.

Volley 4(8-10 seconds in): I hit miracle worker II, Hazard emitters II, ASE III and then explode because he is dealing 3-6k DPS against my hull. I didn't have a chance to see what damage he was at I was too busy mashing skills to attempt to survive long enough to do ANYTHING.

Rinse and repeat this no fewer than 6 engagements. No combination of skills I have or have heard of would have worked to allow me to use my only available tactic against escorts: survive long enough to get outside their forward firing arch and stay there.

The only tactic I can think of for battling this is Jam sensors and wait for SNB to expire. Science team negates this, but it might buy me a couple of seconds.

Comments or suggestions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
07-21-2010, 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyLeach View Post
My opinion is that Science officers in escorts need to be nerfed immediately.

A science officer who knows what he's doing can use an escort in near god-like mode, no matter what he's facing. At first I had thought this only happened when I was facing a fleet, but tonight I saw it happen against only a single science officer in an escort. As everyone knows escorts can deal out an insane amount of DPS. So much so that the only defense is RSP (Reverse Shield Polarity). Even as an engineer using the following skills the longest I could last was fewer than 10 seconds:

1.) engineering team 1
2.) Auxiliary battery
3.) Auxiliary power to structural integrity III
4.) Hazard Emitters II
5.) Science Team 1
6.) Emergency power to auxiliary 1
7.) Auxiliary power to battery 1
8.) Rotate Shield Frequency
9.) Miracle worker II
10.) Reverse Shield Polarity 1 & 2

In every case no matter the combination of skills I was dead in fewer than 10 seconds. The science officer in the escort (it was 1v1, other players where at least 15km away) used scatter volley 2 and cannon rapid fire 2 or 3 with dual heavy anti-proton cannons.

The battle went as follows:

Volley 1 (1-2 seconds in): Science officer and I engage, Both of our shields go down in the initial exchange, I use rotate shield frequency and science team 1 to bring my shields back up some and harden them, he uses emergency power to shields 1 or 2 to bring his shields up some. His attack used scatter volley 1 or 2, mine used beam array overload 2 on a polaron beam array followed by a full 8-beam volley with emerg. power to weapons III.

Volley 2 (3-4 seconds in): Science officer continues using scatter volley 1 or 2 and manges to drop my shields again. By this time I have taken 20% damage to my hull. I use engineering team 1 to bring it back up and hit RSP 2. I continue firing with EPW III. His shields are low and he has taken approximately 8% damage to his hull.

Volley 3 (5-8 seconds in): I hit RSP II in order to prevent further hull damage (at only 48% remaining hull at this time. I then hit evasive maneuvers III in order to get within range for tractors. Science officer responds by hitting SNB. My shields DROP COMPLETELY.

Volley 4(8-10 seconds in): I hit miracle worker II, Hazard emitters II, ASE III and then explode because he is dealing 3-6k DPS against my hull. I didn't have a chance to see what damage he was at I was too busy mashing skills to attempt to survive long enough to do ANYTHING.

Rinse and repeat this no fewer than 6 engagements. No combination of skills I have or have heard of would have worked to allow me to use my only available tactic against escorts: survive long enough to get outside their forward firing arch and stay there.

The only tactic I can think of for battling this is Jam sensors and wait for SNB to expire. Science team negates this, but it might buy me a couple of seconds.

Comments or suggestions.
mine used beam array overload 2 on a polaron beam array followed by a full 8-beam volley with emerg. power to weapons III.

I quit reading righ there. Your problem is your not putting out any damage because your running about 4 too many beams. They're sucking all the power out of your shots. You might as well be tossing rocks at your opponents. EP to weapons or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
07-21-2010, 03:08 AM
How did you use two Reverse Shield polarities in such quick succession? Especially considering by the time you say you used the second one, the first one hadn't even worn off yet.

Subnucleonic Beam will strip all of your buffs. A common tactic is to force the Cruiser to cast all of his heals and self-buffs in desperation from a sudden burst of damage, so that you can SNB them all and it leaves the Cruiser very vulnerable and unable to mount a real defense. This is a valid tactic.

I play an Engineer in a Negh'var Battle Cruiser and have to deal with SNB all the time because I'm a healer. There are ways for you to avoid this; the most simple matter is to not burn everything out of desperation... that's exactly what the Escort captain wants you to do. You need use enough to blunt his assault and you need to bait his SNB, and you need to not waste your Science Team. A good way to bait an SNB is to use Reverse Shield Polarity as your first shield heal, it will likely immediately get SNB'd-- and if not, it's saved you some breathing room to unload on him. If he does SNB you immediately, pop Science Team to clear the debuff.

Another way to bait is saving Reverse Shield Polarity but stack two shield resist heals/buffs so its very difficult for him to punch through your shields, such as Rotate Shield Frequency + Emergency Power (Shields) or Transfer Shield Strength. Keep everything else in reserve so you can survive the SNB.

There's also a question of your tactics, we have no idea where your skill points are spent or your equipment, or how you fight. Are you frequently distributing your shield power? I have Distribute Shield Power set to a button on my mouse so I can constantly click it while I'm under fire. If he strips your shield facing so quickly even with these buffs, have you tried turning so that he has to unload on a fresh shield facing? Perhaps in conjunction with Evasive Maneuvers (which also boosts your defense)? Speaking of, do you fight at full speed? Faster targets have higher defense values. It sounds to me like he had a lot of damage buffs going... if you saw him coming, you could of tried hitting Evasive Maneuvers + Engine Battery as he was buffing up, so you fly just out of range and waste time of his buffs.

What kind of shields do you use? I recommend very rare Covariant (Cap)x3 shields due to their high shield strength, you can purchase these at K7 Space station in Eti Eridani for Marks of Honor.

You say your shield dropped completely after the SNB... do you mean he took them out with damage, or did he use Target Subsystem (Shields) on you, or perhaps a very lucky Phaser proc? Engineering Team or Emergency Power (Shields) will clear these debuffs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
07-21-2010, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaNine
mine used beam array overload 2 on a polaron beam array followed by a full 8-beam volley with emerg. power to weapons III.

I quit reading righ there. Your problem is your not putting out any damage because your running about 4 too many beams. They're sucking all the power out of your shots. You might as well be tossing rocks at your opponents. EP to weapons or not.
You must not know anything at all about engineers. BAO will drain your weapon power, true, but with 2 EPS power conduits, EPS power transfer III, EPW III and a very short pause between BAO and firing a full volley you can do a much higher DPS than with simply a volley. I can share the combatlog if you don't believe me, DPS difference is about 200DPS on the NET and about 600 on the raw.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
07-21-2010, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillingMeSoftly
How did you use two Reverse Shield polarities in such quick succession? Especially considering by the time you say you used the second one, the first one hadn't even worn off yet.

Subnucleonic Beam will strip all of your buffs. A common tactic is to force the Cruiser to cast all of his heals and self-buffs in desperation from a sudden burst of damage, so that you can SNB them all and it leaves the Cruiser very vulnerable and unable to mount a real defense. This is a valid tactic.

I play an Engineer in a Negh'var Battle Cruiser and have to deal with SNB all the time because I'm a healer. There are ways for you to avoid this; the most simple matter is to not burn everything out of desperation... that's exactly what the Escort captain wants you to do. You need use enough to blunt his assault and you need to bait his SNB, and you need to not waste your Science Team. A good way to bait an SNB is to use Reverse Shield Polarity as your first shield heal, it will likely immediately get SNB'd-- and if not, it's saved you some breathing room to unload on him. If he does SNB you immediately, pop Science Team to clear the debuff.

Another way to bait is saving Reverse Shield Polarity but stack two shield resist heals/buffs so its very difficult for him to punch through your shields, such as Rotate Shield Frequency + Emergency Power (Shields) or Transfer Shield Strength. Keep everything else in reserve so you can survive the SNB.

There's also a question of your tactics, we have no idea where your skill points are spent or your equipment, or how you fight. Are you frequently distributing your shield power? I have Distribute Shield Power set to a button on my mouse so I can constantly click it while I'm under fire. If he strips your shield facing so quickly even with these buffs, have you tried turning so that he has to unload on a fresh shield facing? Perhaps in conjunction with Evasive Maneuvers (which also boosts your defense)? Speaking of, do you fight at full speed? Faster targets have higher defense values. It sounds to me like he had a lot of damage buffs going... if you saw him coming, you could of tried hitting Evasive Maneuvers + Engine Battery as he was buffing up, so you fly just out of range and waste time of his buffs.

What kind of shields do you use? I recommend very rare Covariant (Cap)x3 shields due to their high shield strength, you can purchase these at K7 Space station in Eti Eridani for Marks of Honor.

You say your shield dropped completely after the SNB... do you mean he took them out with damage, or did he use Target Subsystem (Shields) on you, or perhaps a very lucky Phaser proc? Engineering Team or Emergency Power (Shields) will clear these debuffs.
I don't yet have Cap * 3 shields, but otherwise will attempt what you recommend. I did not use two RSPs, only one. The list was what skills I had equiped to deal with escorts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
07-21-2010, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Even as an engineer using the following skills the longest I could last was fewer than 10 seconds:
Then you need to learn how to PVP..

The longes i survived against like 5 Klingons as a engineer in a cruiser i belive was 3 minutes.This was
before the nerfinf of RSP.

If i'm on my sci ore tact in e escort BOP i have no chanse to survive that long against more then one enemy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
07-21-2010, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillingMeSoftly
You need use enough to blunt his assault and you need to bait his SNB, and you need to not waste your Science Team.
This right here… for a cruiser against a science regardless if he is in a Science ship, Cruiser or Escort. the tactic I use to bait is this. I run 2 RSP1’s with both of my engineering officers. Because there is no need for RSP 2 since its does that same thing. I also run with Transfer Shield strength 1 which gives me about 15% shield resist and EPShields 3 which gives me about 40% resist and RSF which gives close to 60 shield resist. So in total TSS1, EPS3 and RSF give me over 100% shield resistance and can all be used at the same time. So I will bait the SNB with a RSP1 and then when shields drop again ill hit my TSS, EPS3 and RSF which is 15 seconds of GOD CODE. then I have a RSP on standby when I come out my previous tactic. If I come out of this and need to hit my 2nd RSP my cool downs on my TSS and EPS3 are ready for 55% shield resistant’s after I use it. you can cycle this set up all day. I run full weapons power and 85% aux with Consoles. And I fly a Cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
07-21-2010, 10:26 AM
About the only thing I need to watch out for when facing sci officers flying any ship type is SNB.

In my cruiser:
SNB my RSF + emer power to shields? No problem. RSP 1. After 15 seconds, throw up TSS2 + another copy of emer power to shields. Sci team to cleanse. After TSS2 + emer power to shields wear off, throw up the first emer power to shields and RSF soon as it's done cooling down.

SNB my RSP1? use another shield resist stack combo. This works well even in 2.0 where shield resists cap at 75%. Shield regen + balancing shields is great eh?

I don't carry more than one RSP, I don't depend on RSP, I don't use it except when getting shot at by 3+ players as a breather.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
07-21-2010, 10:36 AM
@Skyleach

If your intention is to improve your game, I would suggest

1) Remove the NERF & OP comments from your post and repost in the PVP gameplay segment.
2) Retitle / reword slightly in such a way as to make clear you are looking to improve your game after being repeatedly killed in PVP.
3) Given 1 & 2, PVP'ers on the STO forums are generally glad to help with good advice. Really.
4) Profit.

or

If your intention is to complain and petition for NERF's, you may safely ignore the above.

Waff
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
07-21-2010, 10:38 AM
Nerf scissors, rock is fine. - Paper
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