Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-26-2010, 05:41 AM
STO is not a simulation or is it it a player driven economy like Eve.

Hopefully oneday part of STO will be more "fluid" to player changes and faction controlled space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-26-2010, 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
Again, you misunderstood the term MMORPG
Roleplaying mostly refers to the fact that you are playing the role of your character and SHOULd do that while interacting with other PLAYERS too. Unfortunately most players don't do that.

Sorry but to me you are asking for a game like Arcanum or The Elder Scrolls [insert whatever number you like]
Yes. Playing the "role" of your character. As a Starfleet officer our role is to seek out new life and new civilizations as well as defend the Federation from it's enemies.

So what new life has been discovered? What new planets? When do our enemies attack us? There's only so many times we can do the same missions until it gets boring. I don't understand the need for even playing STO online? What's the point? Why couldn't I play STO on Xbox with some friends, each using a controller? What do I gain by playing online with thousands of people? I can tell you what I lose...15 dollars a month. Beyond PvP there is ZERO reason to continue playing STO after you have "beaten the game" which is hilariously easy. Also "beating the game" means reaching Rear Admiral Rank at the moment because there is no ending to the game.

So can anyone explain what the plot of the game is? Reaching Rear Admiral?

I don't know about you but I play online games for achievement of goals and milestones. I want to level my character up higher, get better equipment, learn new and obscure skills and try new combinations. I want to reach new game areas and fight new and stronger enemies. SO how do you do that in STO? Once you reach RA you've reached the limits of the game. You have all the skills you can ever get. You have the best equipment possible and the best ships. You've fought all the enemies out there. The differences between the classes are miniscule so there is no replay value in beating the game as a Fed Science Officer and then trying out a Fed Tactical Officer. You just have slightly different abilities but the game is still exactly the same and you do all the missions the same way.

No more milstones, no more new content. Just like an ordinary game you would buy in a store. It was fun, you beat it...time for a new game. What about STO requires an online monthly subscripition? There's only one thing to do after reaching RA and that's PvP. There's nothing to look forward to except waiting for the Dev Team to invent something for us to look forward too.

I can do that without paying 15 dollars a month. Call me when they think of something. I'll sign up for a month again; complete all the new content and then cancel my subscription again. My character has reached the limits of the game as it is right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-26-2010, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Dracon_Darknight View Post
Again, you misunderstood the term MMORPG
Roleplaying mostly refers to the fact that you are playing the role of your character and SHOULd do that while interacting with other PLAYERS too. Unfortunately most players don't do that.
There is some decisionmaking in the new season 2 Missions btw...
Also: Look at it like that:
You are a fed, you decide to Wipe out a planet --> so fed would throw you into prision.
Resulting in the game ending for you.
Furthermore, other players would like to visit that place too, because of you they can't anymore, which could ruin the game for them.
or the other way around: You have just destroyed Quo'Nos the Klingon homeworld, ok now lingons start there get all their quests there and so on - but now its no longer there - what shall they do now? They have lost the war, their homeworld, everything. The war with the Federation would be over, as the impact on the Empire would be too severe, even more than the loss of the Romulan homeworld to the Romulans.

WoW too is an RPG, yet you have no direct impact on the story line, there is phasing, yes but thats all.


The thing with the devs playing Enemies has already happened during an event btw.
It was pretty funny shooting at all those Overpowered Borg ships flown by the devs lol.

The game you are requesting is meant to be a single player game. But this a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Game.
Sorry but to me you are asking for a game like Arcanum or The Elder Scrolls [insert whatever number you like]
Yes if you are a Federation officer and you destroy a planet they would put your character in "prison" for a certain number of days. You wouldn't be allowed to play him. The Federation frowns on lunatic captains blowing up planets. Don't do that. The game doesn't have to end for you. You just get punished to the point where you wouldn't want to do that.

Well you could have "seasons" like we do right now. Every season the locations "reset" back to the original areas. Then we can play a new "round" of war and maybe the Klingons conquor the Federation this time? Or maybe the Romulans will win this round? After 6 months or so then we have a new season and the campaign starts over again. Destroying Qou'nos would only be a problem for a few months until the new season restarted. Maybe the Klinks will defend better next time?

The Devs played enemies 1 time? Sorry but that doesn't really count. They need to do more to keep us interested.

Elder Scrolls is an excellent example of a very good RPG. STO should take notes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-26-2010, 03:16 PM
I think STO is more like a Massive Multiplayer Online Game (MMOG) more then it is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG). In STO there is very little to do in terms of Role-playing as everything you do in the game is in a controlled environment and heavily instanced, which is weird considering all the things that were done in other Star Trek games and from the shows. I am an avid Star Trek fan and this game barely holds me over, I keep thinking to myself how this game fails to deliver all of the quality which is Star Trek. I feel there is more to Star Trek then just fighting, but to Cryptic that is what this game is all about, yes I know they are going to release the Diplomatic part of the game, but isn't that something that should have been in at the beginning. I do not know exactly what the devs were and are planning so I will continue to play and wait a little while longer to see if they can deliver the MMORPG Star Trek game that I have been waiting for, anyways this is just MHO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-26-2010, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwolonewulf View Post
I think STO is more like a Massive Multiplayer Online Game (MMOG) more then it is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG). In STO there is very little to do in terms of Role-playing as everything you do in the game is in a controlled environment and heavily instanced, which is weird considering all the things that were done in other Star Trek games and from the shows. I am an avid Star Trek fan and this game barely holds me over, I keep thinking to myself how this game fails to deliver all of the quality which is Star Trek. I feel there is more to Star Trek then just fighting, but to Cryptic that is what this game is all about, yes I know they are going to release the Diplomatic part of the game, but isn't that something that should have been in at the beginning. I do not know exactly what the devs were and are planning so I will continue to play and wait a little while longer to see if they can deliver the MMORPG Star Trek game that I have been waiting for, anyways this is just MHO.
Im sadly inclined to agree with you. I was really looking forward to the RP aspect of STO. I have played intense text based MUDs like Gemstone for years and I was hoping STO would deliver a similarly immersive experience but that is definately not the case. STO apparently wants to be a standard hack and slash 3rd person shooter. There's no RP and there's really no need at all to even have a multiplayer option unless you want to PvP. There's no in-game economy of items and stuff to trade. Other people aren't even needed. The whole"instance" thing I dont even get. If everyone isn't playing in the same instance then how is it massively multiplayer?

Im a HUGE Star Trek fan. I was really pumped about STO because I thought finally a company with some credentials is going to make a game that finally feels like Star Trek and not another game with Star Trek graphics put over it. How many CIV knock offs with star trek skins have their been over the years? How many stupid space combat simulators have their been? STO doesn't even have 3d space combat! Homeworld had that in the 90;s and that game was AWESOME. STO seems like they are using a common formula here. A 3rd person shooter, hack and slash MMOG that features Star Trek officers instead of Paladins and Wizards. It's Diablo in space except without the cool items to find, less character classes and it takes a fraction of the time to max out your toon.

Im kinda of let down as you can see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-26-2010, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdSin15 View Post
Yes if you are a Federation officer and you destroy a planet they would put your character in "prison" for a certain number of days. You wouldn't be allowed to play him. The Federation frowns on lunatic captains blowing up planets. Don't do that. The game doesn't have to end for you. You just get punished to the point where you wouldn't want to do that.

Well you could have "seasons" like we do right now. Every season the locations "reset" back to the original areas. Then we can play a new "round" of war and maybe the Klingons conquor the Federation this time? Or maybe the Romulans will win this round? After 6 months or so then we have a new season and the campaign starts over again. Destroying Qou'nos would only be a problem for a few months until the new season restarted. Maybe the Klinks will defend better next time?

The Devs played enemies 1 time? Sorry but that doesn't really count. They need to do more to keep us interested.

Elder Scrolls is an excellent example of a very good RPG. STO should take notes.
Elder Scrolls is indeed a good example BUT it is singleplayer. So you won't ruin the game for anyone else than yourself if you kill every non-essential char

Also your character would't be available for the whole season, since there is no way the Federation would let you loose on the Galaxy again lol.
You would also get thrown out of Starfleet

Anyway its imposible to implement something like this. It might ruin the game for ther players, which are paying their fees too. What do they do now? Also, compared to the Federation, the Empire is extremely short-handed and would easily loose.

Regarding the Plot: SPOILEr(mork text below to read)

Spoiler Start

infos from Q-Textes from holo and Tribble
The Iconians have come back after millenias to reclaim their former Empire. They so not seek direct confrontation yet, but they are spinning intrigues everywehre.
Parts of their sheme are: the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, Selas appointment as Empress, the Infiltration of solid realm governments by the Undine, and even altering the past by helping the Borg boarding the saragota(at least they tried)

Also, the Borg are back, once again baring their fangs at the Federation
Currently the Federation is in a state of Crysis:
it is technically at war with at least 4 (iconians not counted) races, two of them with superior technology.
Every sane person would make exploration as secondary target and protect what they already have, rather than enlarging its borders. The Federation is not greedy and happy about what they have.
Exploration can also bring new foes, maybe even more powerful than the Borg. its just too risky while a four-war takes place.

You also want to read: STO: the needs of the many
it takes place several decades after STO and describes the aftermath.

Spoiler End

What would work is Phasing.
BUT even that has its limits.

Example Wow - new expansion:

Phase 1: Orig game to Wrath of the lich King
Phase 2: Cataclysm
Everything is destroyed, the whole world got altered, flying in normal world pssible and so on
(I don't play WoW anymore btw, dirtched it for STO, but this is how phasing works)

Example on STO:
Phase 1: Sulu is in charge of organising the Protection of the Federation
Phase 2: Sulu gets promoted, Winters takes over
Phase 3: Kithomer accord reestablished, enemy signal contacts change from Empire races to Undine, Borg or whatever you want to insert.

The phasing itself is triggered by the Main questline, at certain point you change phases that alter the world but that is all.

Cons of Phasing:
Teaming with friends:
You are no longer able to team with your friends if they are not in the same phase as you
Quests: Some qusts might no longer be available for you
a Lot of programming effort and last but not least a HUGE bug magnet

Please note:
STO's seasons are free, WOW:Cataclysm costs between 20 and 30 EUR(once) + the monthly sub fee
It also is a full fledged expansion, with seasons as sub parts

You might now want to implay that you are already giving them money with your subscription, this jsut party correct.
You must not forget that the goal of a company is to make profit, yet the profit per sub is lower than you might expect.

a standard bill of costs:

Material
+ indirect material costs(%tage of Material)
+ direct labor
+ indirect labor (%tafe if d.l)
-------------------------------------------------------
manufacturing costs
+Administration + Marketing (%tage of m. costs)
--------------------------------------------------------
net costs

Now you have to decide on a net sales price. ATTENTION the following numbers are my pure imagination and just a sample. They do not reflect Cryptics Profit/per unit

For the sake of the example we will now open a fictional company selling hmm lets, we have summer so lets say sun cream.


net costs: 13 $$
net sales Price 15$$

now you have to subtract the net costs from the sales price
you will than get the progfit margin(in this case its 2$$)

lets take a break here. Please note that this is not a companies actual income,(yeah it continues)

in the calc above I have shown you costs that are dependant on the amount produced, now we also have to take costs in accound that would arise even if our fictional company doesn't produce anything:

lets say 150'025 are our fixed costs. (e.g light, rent, and so on), adn we only have ONE product

now we need the Break even point. This is the number of products we need to sell to make neither a win nor a loss.

Long term calc: fixed costs/ (nsp - nc) = amount of products

short calc: fixed costs /profit margin = amount of products

Note: You have to round up irregular numbers, since you cant produce 0.3 products

lets start:

150'025 / 2 = 75'012.5 units ~ 75'013 units

So the company has to sell 75'013 units of their product(whatever it is) to break even.



Everything above that is a win... in theory, since there also is an amount where our dictional company would start making losses.
And yeah the first calc is pretty much standard and part of cost accounting, every company SHOULD apply it if they don't want to fail.

((Attention: I don't know and will not gurantee that the follwing part can be applied to MMORPG companies)


Lets say the max is 100'000 units

Now our fictional company knows that, it has to sell at least 7513 units and 100'000 at max to make a win.
(I don't now if the between xxx and xxx units is applyable to MMORP companies, as they don't need material)

I could still continue, as this calculation is for a company with a monopol. But I intend to study law, not economy --> Interested people may ask Wikipedia

And AGAIN ITS JUST AN EXAMPLE
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