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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
07-29-2010, 05:45 AM
Um.. Its not pvp, its the players who insisted on the cloak as a balancer between the Federation and the Klingons. Several threads about what the OP describes have flown around the forums for a while now on how it wasn't the cloaks that gave the KLingons an edge in pvp, but in fact was just the skill of the average Klinks versus the skill of the average Fed.
I guess they were right, it wasn't the cloak - but how well one plays that was the factor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-29-2010, 05:50 AM
I see pleanty of people flying there RA ships in PvP. The que is just messed up
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
07-29-2010, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogmahone
I see pleanty of people flying there RA ships in PvP. The que is just messed up
RA and VA ships are both T5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
07-29-2010, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_gin_time_again View Post
this is a perfect example why I dont PvP..... in any game let alone this one.

a little self-control and respect goes a long way....and the PvP crowd always seems to have none. (will never activate open-teaming for the same reason). Against their "own kind" is nearly worse than the opposition !!?!?! .. go figure.

...gamer attitudes are shameful at best...throw PvP in the mix, it gets downright abhorrent.

.


.
its not often i agree with Cold_gin_time_Again, but on this I do..

PvP will never be "balanced" because PvP demands a winner.. and if it was "balanced" you couldnt win, you'd just be pew pew'ing at each other endlessly till time ran out..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
07-29-2010, 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingi
its not often i agree with Cold_gin_time_Again, but on this I do..

PvP will never be "balanced" because PvP demands a winner.. and if it was "balanced" you couldnt win, you'd just be pew pew'ing at each other endlessly till time ran out..
You are right on many levels. True balance will never be possible in pvp due to differences in player skill.
It does and will make for long games. I played in one yesterday (new BG1) that lasted over an hour and ended with a score of 85/33.

It was awesome!!!!
I will continue to pvp just so I can get into games that go like it did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
07-29-2010, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_gin_time_again View Post
...gamer attitudes are shameful at best...throw PvP in the mix, it gets downright abhorrent.
Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
07-29-2010, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Um.. Its not pvp, its the players who insisted on the cloak as a balancer between the Federation and the Klingons. Several threads about what the OP describes have flown around the forums for a while now on how it wasn't the cloaks that gave the KLingons an edge in pvp, but in fact was just the skill of the average Klinks versus the skill of the average Fed.
I guess they were right, it wasn't the cloak - but how well one plays that was the factor.
This... when you see cruiser pop in 5 seconds... or 2 escorts trying to hammer a sci and can't take it down for several minutes till another 2 people join in....

Though the first time i played VA pvp I was suprised by a double decloack alpha strike by two defiants... :p

But only once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.
Just give use better cloack dedection, even with a sci ship and EPtA you can bearly dedect cloacked ships when your not in 3km range...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
07-29-2010, 07:33 AM
As one who PvPs on both sides, I can say this from experience: It's not the cloak, it's personal ability and a willingness to work with others that will make you successful at PvP in this game. Before Season 2.0, FvK PvP below RA rank was always competitive. You had a few people who would sit on the side, but that was the exception not the rule. At RA rank, you get a lot of people who just sat there on the side because they were "only there for their daily." That's why I rarely PvP at RA rank anymore.

But coming to the Klingons feeling superior: They are, usually, superior; but not because of their cloak. Here you have a group of players that are forced to level by PvP grinding because the alternatives are endless cluster or incursion grinds that usually gives way less rewards per time spent. When a Klingon group enters any PvP map; one of the first things you see is a team getting set up and targets being designated. On the flip side; try setting up a Federation team when you enter a PvP map and you're either ignored or insulted because you're 'spamming'.

On the cloak: yes, it offers a nice tactical advantage; but any decent player knows how to counter it. I've been devastated by Fed teams before because they use proper cloak detection and teamwork; it's not hard, it's no mystery on how to do it. A lot of people who PvP just don't want to spend points or set skills to properly do it; but then they're the ones who sit back and QQ about how OP the cloak is. Oh well; I guess that's easier to do that than actually do something that requires a little bit of work and thinking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19 Attention!
07-29-2010, 05:59 PM
LoL.

That is all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
07-29-2010, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331 View Post
This... when you see cruiser pop in 5 seconds... or 2 escorts trying to hammer a sci and can't take it down for several minutes till another 2 people join in....

Though the first time i played VA pvp I was suprised by a double decloack alpha strike by two defiants... :p

But only once.


Just give use better cloack dedection, even with a sci ship and EPtA you can bearly dedect cloacked ships when your not in 3km range...
Well.. 2 escorts hammering a Sci... would surely be a quick experience :p even with the ablative giving 30 seconds, the 2-3 seconds without shields when it wears off is plenty to reduce it to space debris.. and should it manage to fire it's only RSP, it will be an absolute maximum of 1 minute survivability I think sci-ships deserve to last a minute

Detecting cloaked ships? NO problem! In my sci ship, running 90 to Aux and no EPtoA, i can usually detect them at 7-8kms, and if i fire my Sensor Scan I can detect them at twice that distance! However, i sometimes get the feeling i'm the only science ship left in PvP...
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