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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-30-2010, 05:54 AM
Nah Dassem, there's 2 of us...not many more, though...can't blame anybody...is it really worth being the "fireworks service" in the match?

I too think the cloak craze will fade with time, but I am also strongly against having a Fed cloak, especially in the flavour it is now - the Galaxy X is somewhat slow and cumbersome, but if the Defiant refit has just the same characteristics as say a Dervish class but with cloak, it might represent a problem of sort. More importantly though, what's really wrong is allowing one team to be in a situation were everybody has a cloak bar one or two - this will make the guy/lady in question "constant bait" and being ganged up infinitely - incredibly frustrating (although it might have some tactical approaches, very hard to pull off anyway).

So, it should be either all ships with a cloaking device (klingon side) or none of them (federation).

Also, this will exacerbate another problem that I think it mainly happens on the fed side - I don't know how many times I've been in CnH games where 1 guy in a Galaxy X spent the entire match cloaked in a corner..."just there for the dailies". Now we will also see cloaked Defiants doing that.

There was already a problem with the builds variety in PvP (it's no mistery that a Fleet Escort with all Dual Heavy Cannons is the "easier way to go", and by a considerable margin), I guess the Defiant Retrofit will only make this worse...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-30-2010, 06:38 AM
Cloak detection remains a joke without sensor scan. My sci/sci been specced for maxed out sensors since launch, and its largely irrelevant in the end. It is a problem, and I'm certainly curious about the Nebula and what it can do for cloak detection.

However, cloak is highly overrated. You can't win a match in cloak. Everyone has to drop out of it at some point. So all you have to do as the last uncloaked ship, is to be good bait.

Sadly Feds don't have a clue how to work as a team with bait, or even just how to be bait, unless they have KDF alts that have done KVK. Of course that means most KDF don't know how to do it either. At least some will learn. It is necessary that people actually learn to do that, because cloak isn't going anywhere, and they don't seem keen on fixing cloak detection any time soon.

And to be sure, its a much bigger problem for Feds, because the bait can be forced to be the weakest of all, the science ships, whereas the KDF has a pretty tough ship to play bait in the Vo'Quv. Of course most Feds don't understand cloak at all and will be much easier to detect than the KDF.

Regardless, get over it and learn how to adapt to the new situation. The attitudes on the Fed side can be pretty pathetic and defeatist, because many have brainwashed themselves into thinking cloak is all that. Its not.



And if you still can't figure out how to play without cloaking, then get MES. There is absolutely no reason to complain that you don't have cloak and everyone else does since that power has been buffed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-30-2010, 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
Exactly. Some people get the impression that success in PvP equates to being successful in life. It's just a game folks, get over yourselves.

I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.

In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.

Buff the hull/shield strength of ships with cloak ability where necessary and make it limited. That would eliminate any abuse of cloaking.
Seriously.. I dont have any problem when fighting Klingons in my SV - I spot them at 10-15k range, the reason I lose these games are because my "team" are busy impulsing around by themselves
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-30-2010, 07:14 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trueheart
I avoid FvK queues, not because I have an issue with cloaked vessels, it's because I have issue with Klingon players who feel that it's their perceived superior personal ability at the game which gives them an inherent advantage while completely refusing to acknowledge that infinite invisibility is a HUGE tactical advantage. Even funnier is the idea that cloaking promotes team play rather than "lone wolf" hit and run tactics. 3 players uncloaking at the same time and focus firing one target is NOT playing as a team. It's the arrogant and condescending Klingon players I want to avoid, not their ships.
Only stupid Klingons think that the BC is an advantage that puts them above others in combat. Its a tool, nothing more and is only useful if used correctly.
I am confused by the "Infinite Invisibilty" statement though. A BC has a cooldown and can't be used over and over without waiting for the CD to cycle. The only difference in cloaks is that a BC can be used in battle, which is not bright since a klink will have no shields after cloaking - but the attacks will still be incomming.
I also don't understand how focus firing is not teamwork related, wiether its coming out of cloak or 3 fed ships firing?


Quote:
In FvF, I have never once found a Galaxy-X to be any serious threat, and I'm not too worried about the Defiant either. Unfortunately if FvF PvP turns into nothing but everyone sitting around cloaked then hopefully Cryptic will realize that game play > canon and turn cloaking into an ability with a duration and cool down just like the other abilities in the game. Cloak should be used for a surprise attack not to indefinitely hide from your opponent or disappear in the middle of battle until you are fully restored.
It is used for surprise hit-n-run attacks, both by NPC klinks ingame and living players. Cloaks have a cooldown and don't need a duration of use - as no such duration has ever been evidenced in the TV or movies when cloaks have been used. I have seen NPC's use ambush and fade attacks in game and the genre as a whole - I see no reason why it should not continue to be so for the players who use BC in combat.
As for the hide indefinitely statement, thats the players choice to cloak and hide and should not be a game controlled parameter. Its cowardly to pull in pvp, but is the right of the player to not want to play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-30-2010, 09:17 AM
These threads are getting so funny.

The last time I qued for a FvF (was a long time ago mind you) I remember it stating it was a TRAINING excersise.
Use it that way...

EVERY class in the game has cloak detection skills... learn them.
Eject Plasma
Charged Particle Burst
Gravity Well
Sensor Scan

There are also powers that prevent cloaking like Tractor Beam and Shockwave.

NOTICE TO FED PLAYERS.... stop trying to Fill EVERY slot you have with heals and RSP copies... and slot some offensive abilitys that STOP or Limit the use of cloak.

Also please note that once a cloak is off there is only one ship that can re engage it on you that being the bop.... SPEED you self up so that the bop driver can not find a good spot to give you the slip in and cloak.
No bop that wants to live is going to try to cloak while they are in your strongest arc.

Use season 2.0 FvF as the training game is should be and learn to fish for cloaks... it really isn't hard.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-30-2010, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Husanak;2903536
No bop that wants to live is going to try to cloak while they are in your strongest arc.

Not unless my finger slips and hits it by accident, at which point its EVM3+PH1+BFI3+Engine batt+ST2 and I'm gone.

(hopefully)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-31-2010, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_gin_time_again View Post
this is a perfect example why I dont PvP..... in any game let alone this one.

...
OR the reason you don't pvp is because you get smoked by 90% of players (in any game let alone this one). I'm just saying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-31-2010, 02:39 PM
I am quite content with my Retrodefiant

It has its drawbacks... ie its waferthin when under attack, but nothing beats soloinstapopping just about everything on one attack run.

RSP always makes me laugh, had one of them new klinky carriers yesterday. I buffed up, decloaked, rapid fire 3d his shields at point blank range, he popped rsp aaaaaand the tricobalt hit him and pop.

Hit all evasive measures and targetted the closing bop with beam target engines and pretty much stopped him dead in the water and got out with like 25 percent rear shields remaining.

Cloaked up, found next target and rinse repeat.

Even more fun when my buddy is flying wing in his.

We double bagged 2 sci ships at the EXACT SAME TIME.

Which was utter win

I support the new ships 110%
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-31-2010, 04:10 PM
um the federation was allowed 1 cloaking device under the treaty of algeron (installed on USS Defiant NX74205) and war with the romulans rendered the treaty null and void....so they can do whatever they want now
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-01-2010, 11:47 AM
Tac Escort cloak works pretty good in Ker'rat, thats the only good thing I have to say about it.

After some PvP Daily runs, I rearmed my Fleet Escort...missing the eng consule and trading a Eng Ens for a Tac Ens, doesn't work...a extra Tac Lt would have made this a decent ship, maybe...I think we give up a lot for a cloak...Never wanted the cloak in the first place..wanted better shields...The Tac Escort has a glass jaw...imho

However, Fed Cloak is canon...Klingon whinners...get over it.
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