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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-31-2010, 11:52 AM
No, I don't really. I wasn't around then much - partially because it was just too fast paced in the first place!

It's not perfect now. I still think that the extremes between damage, basic hit points and healing are off. I don't necessarily expect other people to outlast my Escort when I pop all my buffs and they use only one or two skills, but I don't expect this too happen in one alpha strike, either. It could take a little longer (provided I can also last a little longer when I return for my second assault.)
Likewise, I would like to see my shields in a cruiser or science ships to know more states during an average attack then full or 0 %.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-31-2010, 01:20 PM
Bounty I think a few of the real ife issues plays out here. I said it when we first broght DOb to STO.......this game will have LOTS of first time MMO players and "older" gamers that love the IP. Those players will make for an interesting game. Well it sure did, it made for all the cries of nerf and hackers that you saw on the forums. The Older gamers could NEVER comprehend how to counter TSS even when we released a video of how to do it and shows multiple fraps games between us and 31 where both teams were beating the hell out of each other and none of us had shields up.

I can not count how many times I said "ULTIME is headed back in I got TSS1" reyph said " I got TSS 3" and then did Ultime go POP..........**** no he didn't he was smart he ran off or got healed from his whole team. You are right about a few things though bounty it is FUNNY as hell to see the very same care bears in this thread supporting the old fast paced PVP w2hen they were some of the loudest ignorant mouths crying for slower PVP and thinking we were the *******s for telling them to L2P.

Well I am glad to see that the players that suck got their way, now they can sit in it. DOB, section 31, coffee crew and a few other rare teams got to enjoy the best PVP STO had to offer in its first 3 months as a game. Science had a very good role as crowd controller (watch our early fraps vids and count how many time sI say " I got him VM-ed or he is SNBed." we did that to section 31 guess what they didn't always insta-pop either they knew how to play) cruisers were the healers......and escorts as muchy as people thought "they 1 shot me"; NO THEY DIDN'T it seemed that way because its called burst DPS and that is the job of escorts had you had hull resist and heals on you then you would have been fine but instead you were the galaxies "Captain Kirk" and that amazing lack of skill brought you to the forums to cry about the game.

Bounty I told you last night, I do not know how you still play this game. But the YOUTUBE vid in yoru comment is EPIC
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-31-2010, 01:24 PM
100% agree... I used to get a rush from PvP before they ****ed it up. LIke i literally used to have those full body tremors only adrenaline produces. Now it's meh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-31-2010, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellfxxx
Give it back to us. /rant end
/Agreed

in Closed Beta PVP was fast paced and exciting, and that was fun. It was nice to see combat that wasnt the same boring crap from every other mmo. But every change since then seems to go in the direction of long drawn out boring fighting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-31-2010, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
Funny thing is, where were all these people begging for "fast-paced" PvP when the entire STO community was getting worked by two or three fleets in mere seconds? Where were all these players longing for hardcore PvP when they were getting insta-popped by BTS:S? Where were all these PvP'ers who are now begging for the "good old days" hiding when the forums cried for nerfs, power changes, lack of balance, and calls of "exploiter" or "hacker" or "cheater" echoed from these pages?

As dysfunctional and incomprehensible as Cryptic's actions have been over the last three months it is little more than a mirror of the complete hypocrisy and schizophrenic dysplasia of the fanbase. I can scroll up and see the names of multiple individuals who were QQ'ing, and QQ'ing quite loudly back in the "good old days," and are now /signing this thread like it's all good. Sad, just sad....
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.

Coming from a GW background, spikes have always been slow in this game. After all, whats 2 seconds to catch when you're used to catching spikes in .5 seconds (ya, not joking on that either). In 1.0 though, 90% of actual deaths came from the healing skills being on cooldown. In 1.2 deaths came from neglect or withstanding pressure too long. In 2.0 deaths come from boredom or being asleep at the wheel.

Largely though, combat has turned into a slog with a canyon of difference between popping fast and dying of old age. Pressure from actual damage has dipped to an almost alltime low against people that know what they are doing. Burst is still lethal, but needs to be very fast & potent or accompanied by an snb to actually be effective.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-31-2010, 02:02 PM
Yeah. I'm probably in the crowd that believes the game played better at the beginning of the Open Beta. From my perspective, it hasn't been as good ever since. The January 16th patch was pretty much the beginning of when things started to snowball PvE/PvP-wise IMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-31-2010, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellfxxx
Give it back to us. /rant end
No, but then I came into PvP rather late.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
07-31-2010, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
.
Trith be told faithborn when you examine the changes to gameplay from 1.0-1.2 it is easy to see very little changes until the end of 1.2.
1.0 was fast and fairly balanced with each ship and captain having a role to play, this was the pinacle of the STO population as well. By 1.1 the science nerfs were coming in hard adn fast, the spike in DPS was there from esocrts but the heals from cruisers and shield heals from science were easily there to keep people alive. TSS was easily countered by the end of 1.1 from people that actually listened to the good players that showed many times over how to deal with it. There were many complainers about the skill but those were the very same people that were using it at every turn they could. the redo of FBP / SNB / VM made science a truely gimped CC class but made science in a escort really deadly.
What happened.......CRIES of nerf the new SNB just as I said weeks before it happened, would happen. Then in 1.2 we tested it extensivelyt on tribble throughout its different variations we said "hey all this is not a good thing it will dumb down the game" well guess what it did and low and behold the gameplay was slowed down and dumbed down even further but at least each ship and captain had a roile still.........2.0 hits and it was the nail in the coffin for many people sadly some of us prepaid thiniking the game would remain fun.

I can recall on many occasions that peopel woudl send me tell including one forum messiah that said to me "If 1.2 goes live the way it is I am quitting" now this was when that person was banned from the forums for flaming peoples ideas but guess what the patch went live and that person still plays

My only real question is how many people truely believe that cryptic will be able to instal all its "new features" that they promise without major issues and problems?
the STO community is like a starved dog, they have been thrown bones without any meat on them for soo long that when they see the master get ready to thow a new bone they think will be full of meat and goodness....they get another stripped down bone with bugs in it and a sour taste after trying it. Do they dig out of the yard? Noooooo, they wait for the master to say "don't worry old boy. i got a new bone cooking and after i strip it of any real meaningful nourishment you can have the left overs".
on the upside only a few more months of forum posting left for me LOL,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
07-31-2010, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akumarev
I can recall on many occasions that peopel woudl send me tell including one forum messiah that said to me "If 1.2 goes live the way it is I am quitting" now this was when that person was banned from the forums for flaming peoples ideas but guess what the patch went live and that person still plays
Keep in mind that the context of that message was in regards to having to wait 30-45 seconds between skills (that got changed), next to no difference between cannon and beam damage (that got changed), waiting ages between active combat moments (that got changed), and spikes being impossible to actually pull off (that got changed). So while 1.2 did go live, it wasn't the same patch that I said was ********.

Each patch had it's defining rebalances, each of the balance patches addressed something that rose to prominance in the metagame in the previous patch version.
1.0 - start of the game
1.1 - big 3
1.2 - tss, spikes, skill cooldowns
2.0 - csv, shield resistances.

And discussing moderation of other players is against the forum rules (as well as a fairly desperate maneuver). Keep smiling with poisoned lips though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
07-31-2010, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
To be fair, not everyone has the same vision of "the good old days". Some people prefered patch 1.0 while some people prefered patch 1.1 and 1.2. So, while you may label it as hypocrisy - they might be talking about an entirely different "good old day". Additionally, very few of the actual complainers are posting in this thread - most of those whiners have already moved on to other games.
Although I agree with you that different people have different perceptions about this game, the fact that Rev, Zorbazz, MacGyver, Steppen Razor, Matteo, and I all specifically reference closed Beta, open Beta, or launch game mechanics as the "good old days" in this thread pretty much tells you where the playerbase feels the truly fast-paced action and "wild west" type fun took place...whether or not they liked it or were any good at it. Those were the days of wide-open gameplay, frenetic action, hectic healing and counter strategy implementation, and excellent fleet rivalries which were compelling and drama-filled. Way too many good players and fleets gone from those days and STO is weaker for it...

You have to remember that for a large part of Beta and release gameplay, the mechanics were essentially the same as was the style of play. Once the extensive forum QQ began and the DEV's began the desperate scramble to salvage subscribers, the PvP downturn began. Although Season 1.0 wasn't the NGE-style disaster some predicted when you look at the last few months as what it really is...a prolonged set of sweeping changes every few weeks...then you can see that playing today is NGE-type distant than playing back in February. When you look at Seasons 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, and beyond as small parts of the apparently incomprehensible and deluded PvP vision Snix has for STO, you have to wonder how bad its going to get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
Largely though, combat has turned into a slog with a canyon of difference between popping fast and dying of old age. Pressure from actual damage has dipped to an almost alltime low against people that know what they are doing. Burst is still lethal, but needs to be very fast & potent or accompanied by an snb to actually be effective.
Agreed, combat is painfully slow as it is either total domination by organized fleets against PUG's or two good teams fighting it out in a never ending cycle of "burst--heal thru burst--wait for powers to recharge again--burst--heal thru burst--wash/rinse/repeat."
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