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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-05-2010, 04:22 PM
This misconception has already been disproved many times on the forums. It doesn't matter what some writer said in an interview years after the fact, it matters what was shown on screen.

In TOS, Uhura bought a Tribble, with money. And Spock talked about how much Starfleet had spent on his training.

In TNG, sure Picard said that Earth doesn't use money, but in the very first episode Doctor Crusher bought a bolt of cloth, with money.

In DS9, Jake Sisko explains to Nog that because he's from Earth he didn't get money for selling his book. Now Nog is a Ferengi, if the entire Federation didn't use money don't you think Nog would have remembered that?

In Voyager, Captain Janeway tells Kes a story about a Tuvok buying this Vulcan meditation thingy. She mentions that the Vulcan selling them doubled the price as soon as he saw their Starfleet uniforms.

The Federation uses money. It's canon. Get over it already.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-05-2010, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe
If you're going to say the federation uses money, you gotta cite where this happens.

And yeah, energy credits are replicator rations, like on voyager.

The interesting bit is that you don't need money to have an economy. Merit and favor based are much fuzzier but they still work. I think a good example is that famous terraformer who was trying to light off a sun; I think this was on DS9. Because everyone has stars in their eyes from his sheer awesomeness, even Starfleet is willing to back him.

If you want a modern example of a merit/favor based economy you can look at Hollywood. A star or director makes a really high grossing movie and in order to keep them happy a studio is willing to subsidize their pet projects. But that only works for so long before more blockbusters are demanded. And the more cred you have the more you can attract top tier talent for all aspects of a project.
It's simple really: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation_credit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Quote:
In TOS, Uhura bought a Tribble, with money. And Spock talked about how much Starfleet had spent on his training.
This was in TOS. Yes, no one in that series (I believe) ever said the Federation doesn't use money

Quote:
In TNG, sure Picard said that Earth doesn't use money, but in the very first episode Doctor Crusher bought a bolt of cloth, with money.
That planet Farpoint station was on was not part of the Federation, just like how on Ferenginar and Deep Space nine aren't, and they use gold pressed latinum there. You can have latinum, or whatever currency she used, that doesn't mean the federation uses it.

Nog said that the Federation has abandoned currency-based economics.

Quote:
In Voyager, Captain Janeway tells Kes a story about a Tuvok buying this Vulcan meditation thingy. She mentions that the Vulcan selling them doubled the price as soon as he saw their Starfleet uniforms.
Ok, there's one example, but what about all the contradictions we have? Picard clearly said that "Money doesn't exist in the 24th century." Obviously, we know he isn't talking about everywhere, as the Ferengi use gold pressed latinum.

Quote:
The Federation uses money. It's canon. Get over it already.[/color][/font]
No, all it means is it's another symptom of poor and inconsistent Star Trek episode writing. There are a lot of thing we seen or haven't seen that are contradicted by other episodes and sources, not just money or lack thereof.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-05-2010, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Back when the exchange limits were disabled I made a mint. I'm still not a 10M+ player but I certainly did well.
What does mint mean in this context? I know it's a place where coins or currency is made (eg- the US mint) could it maybe mean 1 million of currency?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-06-2010, 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedman70
What does mint mean in this context? I know it's a place where coins or currency is made (eg- the US mint) could it maybe mean 1 million of currency?
It only means I made a nice amount (and my high-end items still sell well).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-06-2010, 02:27 AM
If I need money to spend on some backward world I would replicate it.

This thread seems to be full of people who are caught up in the world of greed. So while your out shopping with you promisary notes in a big super market think about this, every day 5,000 children under the age of 5 die every day due to starvation (U.N. Figures).

So now ask yourself if your a good human being by hording all that wealth while others starve?

I see some idiots calling Treks vision of the future as communist. Great, its been shown many times around the world that it can work but only when wealth and greed are taken out of the equation. People working together to better everyones lives is not a new concept, do some research. Also as shown in many DS9 shows barter and exchange play a huge role in transactions between federation members but no money is involved. Thats only used when dealing with alien races that still value greed.

Foe me the way Cryptic has handled currency in the game leaves me not using the exchange, not playing dabo and not bothering to horde energy, non of it is needed. Everything I need for my ship and crew I can get with merits for actulay doing something. Merits are not a form a value that can be traded with others, it is a dirrect reflection of your ability as a Captain and crew working towards the betterment of the Federation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-06-2010, 06:43 PM
[quote=ELITE-Kaos;2925911]If I need money to spend on some backward world I would replicate it.
Quote:
This thread seems to be full of people who are caught up in the world of greed.
What does it have to do with greed. We are discussing currency in an MMORPG.

Quote:
So while your out shopping with you promisary notes in a big super market think about this, every day 5,000 children under the age of 5 die every day due to starvation (U.N. Figures).
Well, to be honest. I think their parents shouldn't have had children in the first place, if they couldn't take care of them. I hate these huge breeder parents having 18 or 19 kids. The world is not getting any bigger, and resources are getting smaller. I've heard that they have to have children for someone to take care of them when they get older. But, I doubt any have them solely for that purpose.

Quote:
So now ask yourself if your a good human being by hording all that wealth while others starve?
Well, I'd be supporting children, that I didn't choose to have. Thier parents did, and now it becomes my problem because they didn't prepare well enough to be able to provide for them, like they should have. How am I being bad by having to support a child that was not my choice to bring into the world. The responsibility lies with the parents. And it's ridiculous for me to be supporting their 18 or 19 children. Because they knew they were definitely biting off more than they could chew.

I remember a mom from a poor, third world country saying about how all her children died, and I had to ask "Why did you survive, then?"

Quote:
]I see some idiots calling Treks vision of the future as communist. Great, its been shown many times around the world that it can work but only when wealth and greed are taken out of the equation. People working together to better everyones lives is not a new concept, do some research.
No, it isn't. But the elimination of currency completely certainly is. Would you work if you absolutely didn't have to?


Quote:
Foe me the way Cryptic has handled currency in the game leaves me not using the exchange, not playing dabo and not bothering to horde energy, non of it is needed. Everything I need for my ship and crew I can get with merits for actulay doing something. Merits are not a form a value that can be traded with others, it is a dirrect reflection of your ability as a Captain and crew working towards the betterment of the Federation.
I will continue to play Dabo (actually haven't yet, but may try it) earn energy credits, or whatever else I am allowed to do, with the money I have paid to play the game. I think if you want to be charitable, start a charity yourself, or sponsor those kids on tv. You either pay a monthly fee, or a lifetime one already. You have to pay the same amount no matter what you do in the game. Not doing those things doesn't save money for poor and starving children.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28 Go outside
08-06-2010, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELITE-Kaos View Post
If I need money to spend on some backward world I would replicate it.

This thread seems to be full of people who are caught up in the world of greed. So while your out shopping with you promisary notes in a big super market think about this, every day 5,000 children under the age of 5 die every day due to starvation (U.N. Figures).

So now ask yourself if your a good human being by hording all that wealth while others starve?

I see some idiots calling Treks vision of the future as communist. Great, its been shown many times around the world that it can work but only when wealth and greed are taken out of the equation. People working together to better everyones lives is not a new concept, do some research. Also as shown in many DS9 shows barter and exchange play a huge role in transactions between federation members but no money is involved. Thats only used when dealing with alien races that still value greed.

Foe me the way Cryptic has handled currency in the game leaves me not using the exchange, not playing dabo and not bothering to horde energy, non of it is needed. Everything I need for my ship and crew I can get with merits for actulay doing something. Merits are not a form a value that can be traded with others, it is a dirrect reflection of your ability as a Captain and crew working towards the betterment of the Federation.
I don't mean to make this personal but this post indicates you should REALLY consider stepping back from STO for a bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Quote:
I see some idiots calling Treks vision of the future as communist.
Take a look at this actually, http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...k-Marxism.html
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-06-2010, 11:24 PM
There is at least one specific case of Ben and Jake Sisko discussing Ben's academy days and mentioning that Ben must've gone through a whole mess of transporter credits. Credits of various kinds exist in the Federation. What Picard was talking about in First Contact was that the Federation is so post-scarcity that chasing after wealth is essentially pointless - nearly anything you want can be obtained without much effort now. It leaves people free to better themselves as they wish. There's still some kind of credit system in place to make sure that one person doesn't tie up an entire city's worth of replication capacity, for example, though.

TLDR, there's tons of canonical examples of Federation monetary systems, more than enough to justify money being in STO.
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