Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-10-2010, 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVargazm
I think a tier 5 connie doesn't work just because of size, with cruisers hit points come from mass and the connie just doesn't have it. A lot of people think the connie shouldn't even be in the game because it is to old. I disagree and think every ship we've ever seen in any star trek show should make it in to the game eventually. The B-52s flying today are all 60 years old and expected to keep flying for another 10 years. If we can keep a bomber flying for 70 years today, I would think we would beable to keep a space ship flying for a lot longer in 400 years. Plus with the federation being attacked on all sides it makes sense that they would pull some of those ships out of the moth ball fleet and get them re armed. As far as refits go I think there should be a limit, like 1 or 2 tiers from base to how far they can be upgraded.
Little guy makes sense.

Also to OP This is a SFI game something entirely in an other league than fantasy, if you bothered a bit you would know that about anything in star trek is based on actual science, sometimes just given a fancy name and of course bent a bit to make things work. But the whole point of science fiction is in the name itself:

Science made into fiction and for that reason there are limits to what can be done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12 I Want
08-10-2010, 04:03 AM
There no reason one can not be in the game. People can not screen canon anymore. OLD yes VERY OLD SHIP once refit they can fight just well as the new ones. For you canon nuts got watch DS9: "Homefront" were a Excelsior class refit was able to fight off the Defiant. Ok so what the ship was updated but stat trek ships are designed to be updated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-10-2010, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeves
There no reason one can not be in the game. People can not screen canon anymore. OLD yes VERY OLD SHIP once refit they can fight just well as the new ones. For you canon nuts got watch DS9: "Homefront" were a Excelsior class refit was able to fight off the Defiant. Ok so what the ship was updated but stat trek ships are designed to be updated.
Right I go tech mode now,

Reasons why we shouldn't see connie tier 5

Ship hull is ageing and made of lesser alloys and thus has far less strength.
Ships systems are outdated and would need to be replaced
Ships warpcore is not powerful enough to power new equipment so needs to be replaced
So will all the eps conduits etc so handle the new power flow


Also the connie is the last bread of the ship of her generation the generation that came after her with the excelsior, Miranda etc already feature new hull alloys and updated systems, hence the connie refit looks almost on no front like it predecessor because it is an all new ship. The Connie is just from a generation that has passed and ran its course, call it generation 2.

Excelsior till galaxy are generation 3 vessels much focus of science and exploration as things where good and well most of the time.

Now we are in generation 4 with ships like the defiant, sovereign and cryptics new models, times have changes one war after an other so we focus on ships more build to war.

A ship buil can last between 70 to 120 years according to most sources, some designs are easier to refit than others due the way they are build, but the generation matters remains and to make that clear lets take a look at today.

Right now we are stating with the 5th generation fighter jets (F-22 F-35) before that we had the 4th generation (F-16 F-18) Before that we had the third generation (F-4 F-14)

The third generation right now is disappearing even though the planes are fine and great at times they are just no longer a match for the newer generation five and thus they become obsolete because on that much can be changed till it becomes cheaper to buy just an new airplane.

Back to star trek, so yes they could refit a connie to get higher up the ladder (tier 1-2) but there the limits of its hull stop it and doing so already is not very efficient as it takes about just as much time as building an Excalibur class cruiser which is better on all fronts.

So when could it happen, when some high up admiral wants something special and because he severed for like 40 years they grant him/her the wish and refit one while thinking he/she is an idiot.

Same for the excelsior the ship itself however is from an newer generation which means with upgrades it is still very operational and above all there are many many more of them build which makes creating a refit program more worthwhile because with experience you can refit them faster. there are not that many connie which would mean each would be a one off job taking more time.

So lets list:

Why can't we do connie

*It is to old
*There are not enough of them
*the ship itself is limited in what it can do.
*it is not cost efficient (resource wise we know fed got no money)
*Taking the time to refit one and put it in building a new ship gets you something of more vallue to the war effort.

Why can we do excelsior

*It is more recent
*There are tons of them
*The ship is much larger thus has more options for refitting it
*It is cost efficient
*The warp core is powerful enough to handle a light refit.
*It takes half as long to refit one of these than to build a new ship because staff knows how to refit them them swiftly because they been doing it for much longer.


Continuation:


With all that said it is time to return to the current reality about what matters and we are playing a game and in a game nothing will ever be as in the shows (and the shows screw this stuff up all to often lets be honest) So for the game we can see it happen, I would still however prefer not because atm you can look at some one in pvp and know what he she flies and how, if we get all ships at tier 5 it will get a little confusing, which on its own is a challenge, but balance issues will be a nightmare!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-10-2010, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1ller View Post
Yeah, I would also like to refit the WW1 Renault FT17 tank from the museum with modern electronics and send it to Iraq. Somehow I can not imagie how long it would last...
Irrelevant. We're not talking about reality. We're talking about a game based on a space fantasy series called 'Star Trek'. As we have already seen in STO (Pakled starship captains), virtually anything goes.

And I say bring on them T5 Connies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-10-2010, 08:04 AM
Nothing stops you from flying your Constitution class at T5. The game is an attempt to recreate futuristic STO environment. Older ships, while solid for their age, simply just do not compete at the level of today's technology. While it may be possible to refit a ship to the next higher tier, there are drawbacks and it's not possible to turn a frigate into battleship or carrier.

If you MUST fly a Constitution, B'Rel or other oldie but goodie, get an RP fleet and go to town. Many fleets have events which require their captains and admirals to break out an older ship with equipment MK restrictions to accomplish a fleet action for the challenge.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-10-2010, 08:06 AM
I wholly concur with the OP. Thanks Devs and please give us our Constitution.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-10-2010, 08:29 AM
T5 Connie....but ONLY if it is NOT a C-Store item!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-10-2010, 08:58 AM
No T5 connie come on its a old underpowerd frame how can you say it can be a tier 5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-10-2010, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandras
Right I go tech mode now
And I see your tech mode and trump it with BOOK MODE!

In both the STO Timeline and the STO Novel, Needs of the Many, they explain that in the 25th Century, Starfleet made a huge leap forward in ship design with something called Modular Ship Design technology. This was developed by the starfleet corps of engineers. It allows captains to personalize and customize the makeup of their ship. And explains why the guts of a 25th century ship can be modern, up to date, and totally killer. But the hull/look of the ship can be retro, classic and something out of the 23rd century.

They have already written this into their story. It's now canon, in gameplay terms. You can have a Constitution class LOOK, but still be a modern ship.

And I'd like to take a moment to point out that not a single ONE of you folks ever mentions the Raptor.

This ship is from the 22nd century. Enterprise show era. Never had a cloaking device. And would be horribly ancient by modern standards. And yet T5 raptors, with cloaking devices no less, continually blow you all out of the sky in PVP. And you're A-OK with this. And never complain about this ancient Archer-era ship being modern and up to date.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-10-2010, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1ller View Post
Well if you want a fantasy, you should go play a fantasy game. Where in the words science fiction is the fantasy? Most people playing these games are tech people inclining to either science (me) or fiction. I really do not see logical reason to refit 100 or 150 old ships. For the price of the refit, you can build a brand new ship. Take a look at my post about that tank. Or imagine someone fitting a guided missiles to a WW1 biplane. Sure, it may work, but who would fly such a suicide machine?
Good you mentioned Legacy (one of the worst Trek games ever, but nevermind). Here you can keep NX class till TNG era, sure. But the ship is then destroyed by a single hit from the emeny.
If this game (STO) stuck very strictly to canon, then I would totally agree with you.

I was like you once. Trying to justify limitations and restrictions on the game, in order to try and build my perfect little Star Trek universe.

But as I got into the game, I quickly realized that STO simply can't be limited at this point. This game, is not about faithfully recreating the Star Trek universe. If it was, we'd all be restricted to one era of uniforms, one era of ships, and there would be uniformity and adherence to canon.

No...this game is about letting people live out every and any whacked out Star Trek fantasy they can think of. Want a TOS era Connie with Disruptors and Quantum Torpedos? You can have it!

Just spend five minutes in Starbase 1 looking at the 40,000 uniform combinations that exist (over 50% of which are females looking more akin to streetwalkers than Starfleet Officers) and you will lose your will to argue for canon just as quickly as I lost mine.

Suffice it to say...the Borg had it right. Resistance IS futile. At this point, it's better to just accept it, and make the players as happy as they can be, by giving them everything they can possibly want. If that means Vice Admirals running around in NX Class and Constitution Class ships that have more teeth than a Defiant Class escort, well then, so be it.

This is what Cryptic designed. So to quote the infamous Blizzard...

"Working as intended."
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