Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 278
# 31
02-19-2013, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
I'd like to think that a "maxed-out" Constitution can match the Intrepid-class.....
Well, in the Star Trek universe I'm not sure ship design counts for a whole lot to begin with; the main differences are the size allowing for more crew. Other than that some ships have more specialised designs with mission pods, or a special stream-lined shape for quantum slipstream and so-on.

Otherwise the hull of the ship is really just there to hold all the important pieces, namely the warp-core, engines, power systems, shields and deflector, which I think an enterprising fleet could absolutely fit into an older ship if they were willing. It wouldn't be an easy job by any means, but there should be enough space to fit everything you need into a constitution class; it's not like we're talking about hooking up 25th century warp cores to 23rd century power systems, but a fully refit of all systems onto what is essentially just a shell for holding it all.

Really the only area to worry about is whether the captain of said refit ship is foolish enough to adopt older uniforms that leave the female crew members struggling to battle-stations in tiny mini-skirts, or the men for that matter if a few episode of TNG are anything to go by?

My main concern with adding more earlier ships into tier V is that it's already a really busy space. It might be nice if some classes of ship were rolled together as equivalent for the sake of simplicity, and simply allow us to choose a basic design for the ship from which we then select individual parts. Otherwise new tier V ships need to have some kind of nich? designed for them which is what leads to a lot of balance issues between ships.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 85
# 32
02-19-2013, 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
Well if you want a fantasy, you should go play a fantasy game. Where in the words science fiction is the fantasy? Most people playing these games are tech people inclining to either science (me) or fiction. I really do not see logical reason to refit 100 or 150 old ships. For the price of the refit, you can build a brand new ship. Take a look at my post about that tank. Or imagine someone fitting a guided missiles to a WW1 biplane. Sure, it may work, but who would fly such a suicide machine?
Good you mentioned Legacy (one of the worst Trek games ever, but nevermind). Here you can keep NX class till TNG era, sure. But the ship is then destroyed by a single hit from the emeny.
Well, speaking from the perspective of a writer, I have always felt that science fiction was fantasy that felt the need to explain itself. Star Trek has some major fantasy elements in it due to the unexplainable (or perhaps even impossible) elements involved.

I could go on for pages on this, but I will refrain. Instead, I will simply throw out some random points.

The transporter: This was not a projection of any real world science, but a smart idea to meet the show's budget constraints while allowing them to tell the stories they wanted to.

The universal translator: This was pretty much ignored in the TOS run anyway as all aliens simply spoke good old American English. Once again, in order to move the story along in the space of a one hour show (minus commercial breaks), this piece of fantasy tech was written in.

There is no sound in space: No whooshing sounds as a ship rushes past. No engine sounds as it floats gracefully by. Phasers would not go beeeeeeeep. Photon torpedoes would not go booooooom. Sound, (as you should well know my scientifically inclined friend) requires an atmosphere. But regular T.V. audiences would not respond well without that sound, so they put it in the show. All in space sound effects are pure fantasy.

FTL Drives and Warp Speed: Physicists are still debating if breaking the light speed barrier is even possible BY ANY MEANS. Warp drive is yet again another piece of fantasy tech written in to make the stories even possible.

90% of the universe is populated by humanoids: Because 100% of the actors playing them are humans.

For something to be considered science fiction, it should (in my humble opinion) be rooted in real science, and not made up science that Trek so often uses to justify their stories. Just because you have a space ship and toss in an android isn't enough to qualify for science fiction.

However! I love my fantasy. And I love Star Trek. But I am also not an idiot. I understand why the Trek universe is built the way it is and it has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with telling stories, budget, and time constraints in a T.V. show. (But mostly for telling stories. The stories were, and are, the most important part of Trek.)

People have this notion that science fiction is better than fantasy, and that if we love something we need to elevate it to that science fiction status (like Star Wars, which is another debate I usually lose to the fans who insist that it is sci-fi.... but whatever...).

I say otherwise, and I insist that Trek is not only a fantasy, but one of the best crafted ones out there. And even more lovable because of it.

Last edited by haldan1968; 02-19-2013 at 11:00 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 33
02-19-2013, 10:59 AM
Is it really necessary to create new forum alts so you can necro long-dead threads just so your main can levy arguments against people who posted years ago?

This is ridiculous. Stop with the necro threads.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 85
# 34
02-19-2013, 11:16 AM
Here is an idea. (Regardless of my earlier rant about fantasy versus science fiction, I feel that fantasy does need to have rules and those rules adhered to in the narrative).

Therefore: Let us assume that the titanium involved in the construction of star ships has become rather scarce in recent years with all the new ships being built. Let us also assume that a new process of isotope re-modulation (made up fantasy jargon) could be employed to strengthen the older titanium hulls of these much older ships.

We could also assume that this process would be less expensive than trying to reclaim the titanium from the alloy of the ship's hull that would then be used to make a more modern looking design.

So we retrofit the old ships, re-modulate the hulls, and press them back into service.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 35
02-19-2013, 12:56 PM
To add into the mix since it has been suggested elsewhere......Couldn't some 2409 version ala: Excalibur / TMP Connie / Exeter Hybrid be re-fit Escort (based on the ships current size) in relation to other ships in-game?

I know players saying no Cruiser could be that small, so who says it had to be a Cruiser then? A Destroyer? An Escort? Even if it were some advanced Science ship.

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