Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-12-2010, 03:46 AM
Good question OPer! Here is the real answer!

Quote:
From 2006 to 2010 the following more elaborate explanation could be found at startrek.com:

"As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live-action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, video games, the Animated Series, and the various comic lines have traditionally not been considered part of the canon. But canon is not something set in stone; even events in some of the movies have been called into question as to whether they should be considered canon! Ultimately, the fans, the writers and the producers may all differ on what is considered canon and the very idea of what is canon has become more fluid, especially as there isn't a single voice or arbiter to decide. Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry was accustomed to making statements about canon, but even he was known to change his mind.

In the publishing world, there used to be two exceptions to the novel rule: the Jeri Taylor-penned books 'Mosaic' and 'Pathways.' Many of the events in these two novels feature background details of the main Star Trek: Voyager characters and were to be considered as references by writers on the show. Now that the show is over, some of those events may never be incorporated into a live action format, so the question of whether details from these novels remain canon is open to interpretation.

With regard to the Animated Series, there are a few details from the episode 'Yesteryear,' written by D.C. Fontana, that reveal biographical background on Spock and planet Vulcan. Details from this episode have been successfully incorporated into the canon of Star Trek (such as in 'The Forge') and now that the Animated Series is out on DVD, we hope that even more can make its way in!"
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...cies/canon.htm

Some more:

Quote:
Non-canon This is merely the negation of "canon". If only live action is to be taken into account, then Star Trek novels, no matter if written by licensed authors or by fans, are never canon. In order to avoid misunderstandings: The designation "non-canonical" does not imply that they are badly written or that faithful fans should not read them. It just says that they are not a part of the canonical Star Trek Universe and are therefore irrelevant in its assessment. All novels, comics, reference books, calendars, role playing games, computer games, websites, TV shows outside the five series, merchandising items and everything else dealing in any way with Star Trek is non-canon, regardless of its origin or authorship.
Last, and most importantly:
Quote:
Canon and the fans As already mentioned, the term "canon" shows up on fan websites a lot more frequently than on startrek.com or in official reference works. Even casual viewers who may not be aware of the word "canon" care more about it than the studio could hope for. They notice goofs like the epitaph "James R. Kirk" because everyone knows that his true name is "James T. Kirk". They wonder if the contents of novels or comics may have any bearing on the TV series. They compare Star Trek with other franchises like Marvel Comics where the establishment of a common canon is practically impossible because of lacking continuity. In this regard the canon policy gives the fans, and especially the die-hard Trekkers who have seen every episode preferably several times, something to chew on. It allows to limit discussions among fans to a reasonable common ground, and it ultimately enables the setup of websites like Memory Alpha, which would be a bottomless pit without the canon foundation, and of EAS, which would become utterly pointless. In this sense the canon allows Star Trek to earn a "meta quality" when fans take care of episodes that the production staff has long finished and almost forgotten.
All from: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...cies/canon.htm

Take a read, if you really want to learn about the canon; that is the place to go!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12 Try agin newbie
08-12-2010, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Star Trek 11 is definitely cannon.
Alternate Timeline do not count. Still good moive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-12-2010, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeves
Alternate Timeline do not count. Still good moive.
The difference is that this "new" timeline is now the accepted "real" one for two reasons:

1) Any future movies/canon material will be based off of XI.
2) The events of First Contact (basically all of Enterprise, epitomized by Regeneration) have significantly altered the timeline.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-12-2010, 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeves
Alternate Timeline do not count. Still good moive.
Are you sure it's Alternate? As Spock never returned to 'Prime' we CAN conclude that the original Universe does not exist. Effectively restarting 40 years of Star Trek.

The game we are playing is nothing more then a Simulation; The Server is called Holodeck after all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15 More then one site
08-12-2010, 11:02 AM
More then one site say The last move was Alternate Timeline. Rather list a million links. I will list the most referenced site on the Internet for Star Trek. More people go to this site then even the paramount/CBS site.
Under the section "Story and script" there is this.

Even though this film takes place in an alternate timeline, Orci has stated that any canon changes made in this timeline will not affect the former timeline, arguing that the scientific theory of quantum mechanics permits the existence of parallel timelines and universes, invoking the thousands of Enterprises from various universes seen in TNG: "Parallels" to back up this theory. He also believes that this theory allows for the continuance of a timeline even after a change is effected and an alternate timeline is created. In addition, he argues that, although the timeline has changed, the true nature of the characters does not change and that Kirk and company are the same people they are in the original timeline. [29]

and for fun here is the link

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-12-2010, 12:34 PM
There are also numerous examples of Alternate universes being created that are also canon. Some have only been used in one show. While the Mirror Universe has been expanded upon in several shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-12-2010, 04:05 PM
Please keep your posts clean. ~GM Tiyshen
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-12-2010, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeves
More then one site say The last move was Alternate Timeline. Rather list a million links. I will list the most referenced site on the Internet for Star Trek. More people go to this site then even the paramount/CBS site.
Under the section "Story and script" there is this.
Correct! Keep in mind "Alternate Timelines" do not mean "Nix the Canon". It means, this stuff is canon, it just takes place on an alternate timeline. (See, how that works? No?)

Alright, "Edith Kellor must die." Right? Guess what, that whole episode before Kirk and Spock arrived in the past, TOOK PLACE ON AN ALTERNATE TIME-LINE. A Time-line where Hitler won the war, and there was no UFP (As the characters knew it.)

In that example, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy ALL live in an alternate time-line, for about 10 minutes. Then they all poof to some grocery store, who has a sale on apples. After the commercial break, Spock and Kirk go to the past in an attempt to "right the time-line".

Are you still with me?

Okay, flash backwards. Kirk and Spock have just met on the Kobyashi Maru test. Right now, they are on "our time-line"...Uh oh! Nero attacked(s)! They are now, just as before, on an "alternate time-line". HOWEVER nothing about the "switching time-lines" negated canon. You know why?

It is a live action movie, and ANY LIVE ACTION MOVIE/TV show is Canon. (Unless otherwise stated, warp 10 )

Quote:
Even though this film takes place in an alternate timeline, Orci has stated that any canon changes made in this timeline will not affect the former timeline, arguing that the scientific theory of quantum mechanics permits the existence of parallel timelines and universes, invoking the thousands of Enterprises from various universes seen in TNG: "Parallels" to back up this theory.
Hey, exactly what I just said! Though easier to understand, I am sure.

Quote:
He also believes that this theory allows for the continuance of a time-line even after a change is effected and an alternate time-line is created. In addition, he argues that, although the time-line has changed, the true nature of the characters does not change and that Kirk and company are the same people they are in the original time-line. [29]
Aye, a new time-line, but same canon. Sure gets confusing, huh?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-12-2010, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWalkingLost View Post
Are you sure it's Alternate? As Spock never returned to 'Prime' we CAN conclude that the original Universe does not exist. Effectively restarting 40 years of Star Trek.

The game we are playing is nothing more then a Simulation; The Server is called Holodeck after all.
So the entire original universe depended upon the physical presense of Spock, and when he left, the entire universe ceased to exist?

Who knew that an entire reality hinged on the body of a half-vulcan?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWalkingLost View Post
Are you sure it's Alternate? As Spock never returned to 'Prime' we CAN conclude that the original Universe does not exist.
IF there was only one timeline, that might be true, but persistent alternate timelines have been shown in canon sources. The removal of one person from a timeline does not preclude the continuation of that timeline (though it may be altered).

CW is that STXI is an alternate timeline (a "reboot" of the franchise). The original timeline still exists, albeit minus "Spock Prime".
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