Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 UGC, Holonovels and an idea..
08-11-2010, 08:26 AM
so all this talk about UGC and holodecks caused some kind of dim spark to flare in my brain.. and this is what came of it..

when UGC arrives in STO, at season 3 or whenever, what would be a nice system in place would be for UGC tools to be used to make "holonovels"

these could then be published on a holonovel exchange, along with a brief description and rating from some kind of approval system (so you dont buy one described as one thing and all it turns out to be is one unbeatable guy shooting you endlessly or something..) with players using energy credits to obtain the program which could then used in a holodeck in the ships interior. Some kind of set price system would need to be in place too to prevent over-pricing.. say like a program that takes on average about 10 min to run though would be much cheaper than one that takes an hour..

this rewards creators with a one-off payment for the purchase of the work, the better and more popular it is the more they will earn, allows players to invite friends into their ships for experiencing the holonovel and opens up many "trek" moments like picard's "dixon hill" programs, or data's "sherlock holmes" programs.. or the many we saw on voyager.

loading in would be as simple as going to the holodeck in your ship, having an interface come up to select which of the purchased programs you want to do and then in you go, (into a private instance running the program, like when you go into your ship).

programs could be sold "no-mod" so no changes could be made, or with minor user modifications (and then cant be sold on to the holonovel exchange) which would be set by the author when they create it.. i would suggest the default be no mod however, just to be on the safe side :p

best thing is, dev's could occasionally seed this system with missions, where the holodeck malfunctions and you've got to solve your way out of it.. or with just plain fun things that wouldnt work elsewhere (DStahl can get his V'Ger in the game with absolute ease this way!)

obviously there would need to be reviews before programs were released (i know what all you reg barcley's out there are thinking :p) which i would imagine any UGC would have anyway.. and some kind of player feedback in place.. double-blind emails maybe..

ok yeah, its quite complicated but i really think this would give a massive boost to the game. it would give people who want a sandbox creator experience an outlet, provide replay value for people and increase content for everyone.

any ideas, refinements and comments appreciated
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
08-11-2010, 09:49 AM
First mission created with the UGC needs to be from the perspective of a Horta.

Are there some "legal" type issues involved with making UGC available to the masses and charging them in-game currency? What would a player that generates UGC do with millions of EC or GPL?

Can UGC content really be "copyrighted" or made to be "uneditable" because at it's basic level it's just recompiling already copyrighted work? Shouldn't the UGC missions be available to be edited, added to or changed?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-11-2010, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyryck
First mission created with the UGC needs to be from the perspective of a Horta.

Are there some "legal" type issues involved with making UGC available to the masses and charging them in-game currency? What would a player that generates UGC do with millions of EC or GPL?

Can UGC content really be "copyrighted" or made to be "uneditable" because at it's basic level it's just recompiling already copyrighted work? Shouldn't the UGC missions be available to be edited, added to or changed?
i'd be first in line for the UGC playable horta holodeck sim!

(i think i actually suggested playable horta back in closed beta before zinc did!)

not so sure about the legal issues of UGC holonovels. i figured the set price/one purchase needed per novel (and at a low, low price, was thinking like 500EC to 2,000EC max originally) would be more of a "thank you" for the people who'd make this kind of content.

as for what would someone do with millions of EC or GPL in game? anything they want with it! (that can be bought for those currencies...)

the editing thing, well that ties in to the theme of the holodeck.. when someone would alter the parameters of a program and hey presto! wacky hijinks ensue...

its basically a form of customisation.. if you get a modable novel and love the storyline, but would rather see the ferengi than random-creation-Z as the antagonists you'd be able to modify it so the ferengi were there instead!

the "user can mod/copy/rename" idea really is something that comes more from second life, where the majority of things there are user made.. it works ok over there, and was thinking this would be more a sandbox element in STO similar to the set up in SL in general so similar restrictions/potential would be in place.

it wouldnt be fair if someone bought a copy of the best selling holonovel, altered a couple of names, a race or two here and put it back out as though it was 100% their own work... at least a linage tracer or something that cant be altered should be there so credit goes where credit is due.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
08-11-2010, 10:57 AM
/Intriguing

this is a really innovative idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-11-2010, 11:53 AM
How about an elite mode where you turn the holodeck safeties off? These would subject you to the risk of an injury.

I'll take the orbital skydiving program, please.

EB
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
08-11-2010, 11:54 AM
i've been having a lot of "discussions" with people over the whole instancing thing lately..

just seems to me that the holodeck is and always was a unique "instance" in the trek universe, and if we're going to have UGC we may as well make use of the way the tech the game runs on for this!

i mean, you could even have a large holodeck in a spacedock that runs scheduled holo-adventures that people can take part in as a (reasonably sized) group.. like the cinema is in modern times but fully interactive!

so many possibilities for player creation here.. would truly give people who want a sandbox experience something to sink their teeth into (if the tools are up to it) and those seeking a "themepark" experience a chance to have so much to do they'll not know what to do first!

I'm also not saying this should be the ONLY UGC, i like the idea of being able to have things like possible exploration missions or diplomatic ones also made by players (as there's some honestly scarily creative people on the boards alone) but it should be an option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
08-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebeyer View Post
How about an elite mode where you turn the holodeck safeties off? These would subject you to the risk of an injury.

I'll take the orbital skydiving program, please.

EB
ooh! nice!

i'd also like it if they could adapt the zone pause tech into a "freeze program" command, where you could walk about while the holodeck is stopped..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
08-11-2010, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingi
i'd be first in line for the UGC playable horta holodeck sim!

(i think i actually suggested playable horta back in closed beta before zinc did!)

not so sure about the legal issues of UGC holonovels. i figured the set price/one purchase needed per novel (and at a low, low price, was thinking like 500EC to 2,000EC max originally) would be more of a "thank you" for the people who'd make this kind of content.

as for what would someone do with millions of EC or GPL in game? anything they want with it! (that can be bought for those currencies...)

the editing thing, well that ties in to the theme of the holodeck.. when someone would alter the parameters of a program and hey presto! wacky hijinks ensue...

its basically a form of customisation.. if you get a modable novel and love the storyline, but would rather see the ferengi than random-creation-Z as the antagonists you'd be able to modify it so the ferengi were there instead!

the "user can mod/copy/rename" idea really is something that comes more from second life, where the majority of things there are user made.. it works ok over there, and was thinking this would be more a sandbox element in STO similar to the set up in SL in general so similar restrictions/potential would be in place.

it wouldnt be fair if someone bought a copy of the best selling holonovel, altered a couple of names, a race or two here and put it back out as though it was 100% their own work... at least a linage tracer or something that cant be altered should be there so credit goes where credit is due.
Changing the parameters of a holo program could be done such that you aren't really editing the program and getting an end product that can be re-sold but instead modifying the parameters 'temporarily'. I say temporarily in quotes because there's no reason why you can't save your settings and have that new file show up as a sub-program under the original program when you go to your holodeck. Creating an original holo program would involve a Design Module, which does _not_ get sold. It has 'info' and 'scripts' that compile to a holo program, which you then sell on the exchange.

Basically when you buy a holo program you load the program chip into the holodeck and from _there_ you can make some minor modifications. Higher level, lower level, different races, etc.

You'd have to make a whole knew Design Module and spend the time to do it from scratch to get your own editable version. Which I see no problem with, if you want to spend that time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
08-11-2010, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharh View Post
Changing the parameters of a holo program could be done such that you aren't really editing the program and getting an end product that can be re-sold but instead modifying the parameters 'temporarily'. I say temporarily in quotes because there's no reason why you can't save your settings and have that new file show up as a sub-program under the original program when you go to your holodeck. Creating an original holo program would involve a Design Module, which does _not_ get sold. It has 'info' and 'scripts' that compile to a holo program, which you then sell on the exchange.

Basically when you buy a holo program you load the program chip into the holodeck and from _there_ you can make some minor modifications. Higher level, lower level, different races, etc.

You'd have to make a whole knew Design Module and spend the time to do it from scratch to get your own editable version. Which I see no problem with, if you want to spend that time.
thats excellent! totally in theme and completely deals with the modifying problem! thank you!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-11-2010, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebeyer View Post
How about an elite mode where you turn the holodeck safeties off? These would subject you to the risk of an injury.

I'll take the orbital skydiving program, please.

EB
The biggest problem with an orbital skydiving program would be the 4 story high limit of the virtual ceiling which would make for all of maybe 2secs of free-fall and not 10mins worth. ;(
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