Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-13-2010, 07:15 AM
As everyone has said, full auto assault has a longer range, but dual pistols can hit more targets up close and have a shorter cooldown on their spread. I prefer the full auto assault for my away team, and I use dual split beam riffles to take care of the exploits, 3 at a time if needed.

For some borg missions I also carry a sniper rifle to not aggro other stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-13-2010, 07:50 AM
Honestly, guys, among the people that I play with and talk to, a tac using dual pistols is a running joke... one that never fails to make us all laugh. I mean no direct offense to anyone who has posted in this thread but, quite simply, "dual pistol tac" is synonymous with "noob." To explain it in a way you spacers can understand, it's like flying flying an escort/bop with all beam arrays. Such a waste.

Ground PvP is all about teamwork. An important aspect of teamwork is knowing your class and your role. It is not a tac's job to charge past the front line and plink away with a pea shooter, banking on a lucky expose chance. You have the worst defense of any class not to mention that an engineer could probably just stand there, not pressing any buttons at all, and easily absorb a dual pistol barrage. Plus, by the time you reach the BG/MG tier, an exploit will rarely kill you with full shields/health (and many combinations below that).

The best tacs stay crouched behind the line or move into flanking positions, avoiding aggro. They use heavy hitting weapons from (max) range to deal massive sustained and burst damage. They know that the best stat affecting their class is, above all else, crit. They also trust their sci and eng teammates to do their jobs, one of which being to expose, and are always prepared to fire off an exploit shot. To this end, most tacs cycle between two exploit weapons (2 snipers or a sniper and a split beam).

BTW, a dual pistol tac isn't the worst possible set up. If your intent is to maximize comedic effect, equip a stun gun. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-13-2010, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrowedTune
Honestly, guys, among the people that I play with and talk to, a tac using dual pistols is a running joke... one that never fails to make us all laugh. I mean no direct offense to anyone who has posted in this thread but, quite simply, "dual pistol tac" is synonymous with "noob." To explain it in a way you spacers can understand, it's like flying flying an escort/bop with all beam arrays. Such a waste.

Ground PvP is all about teamwork. An important aspect of teamwork is knowing your class and your role. It is not a tac's job to charge past the front line and plink away with a pea shooter, banking on a lucky expose chance. You have the worst defense of any class not to mention that an engineer could probably just stand there, not pressing any buttons at all, and easily absorb a dual pistol barrage. Plus, by the time you reach the BG/MG tier, an exploit will rarely kill you with full shields/health (and many combinations below that).

The best tacs stay crouched behind the line or move into flanking positions, avoiding aggro. They use heavy hitting weapons from (max) range to deal massive sustained and burst damage. They know that the best stat affecting their class is, above all else, crit. They also trust their sci and eng teammates to do their jobs, one of which being to expose, and are always prepared to fire off an exploit shot. To this end, most tacs cycle between two exploit weapons (2 snipers or a sniper and a split beam).

BTW, a dual pistol tac isn't the worst possible set up. If your intent is to maximize comedic effect, equip a stun gun. :p
There are valid reasons for going with dual pistols or wide-beam pistols. The big reason is that you want the faster secondary attacks on a compression pistol, but don't want to spend the skill points on a rifle for your other weapon. Depending on your tactical build you might find yourself investing in the skills which enhance pistols to support your other abilities, so supporting rifles as well may seem like a waste.

As long as you spend most of your time using your exploit weapon it's no big deal. With a compression pistol you don't need to cycle between two weapons to keep an exploit available, so if the dual pistols are sort of your backup weapon I don't see the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-14-2010, 02:21 AM
At LG, expose/exploit is a waste against a good team if someone cannot hit with the Exploit shot hard enough to kill. If it does not kill, consumables/teammates/Sci and Eng skills will have that player back to full defense in short time.

Tactical are best suited to apply that final blow, but they gotta hit with one shot HARD.
Pistols will not pack the punch needed unless you hit someone who is seriously wounded/shield depleted to begin with.

Even if you do not buy into the far range support for a Tac, Pistols just do not do enough damage to sustain high enough DPS to overcome Science and Engineer tricks, nor do they pack enough punch to pull off most Exploit shots. Couple this with a Tac only having defense of consumables, and pistols shorter range of effect bringing you into range of any weapon/pet the foe would have, the Tac puts themselves at a serious disadvantage using pistols.

Even if you are proficient with a stun pistol (I have seen SOME Tacs use it to an advantage), 1v1 against a skilled ground Engineer, Sci healer or Sci CC/Exposer, or a Tac skilled with rifles, even with awesome PvP ground skills (movement and tactics) will have you taking a dirt nap much more often than them if you are armed with only pistols. Couple that with the limited punch of the weapons themselves, you also most likely gimp your team also by not being able to hit hard enough.

Rifles are far from "noobsauce facerollers" at LG vs opponents who are skilled. If you are not good with rifles, you may as well pack pistols, as it will make little difference. Trust me, good players can find a bad player in about 2 seconds (lack of proper kill/survival tactics are obvious to good players), and if your that "mark", you WILL be hunted and targeted if they feel that is what they need to do to push the odds their way.

Play how you want. At lower levels, it is far more forgiving on Tacs, But at RA/BG and up, Tacs HAVE to play smarter than any other class now to be affective with their burst being lower than it was before season 2 against skilled players (non-skilled ground-pounders it makes little difference against). Tac is a timing "dance" to pull of effectively and be an asset to your team.

Tacs are generally the first target of opportunity to well organized ground teams (they are always called out pregame in the organized teams I participate in, ALWAYS...so we know who we will focus given the chance) because they are the easiest to drop. They will be the first recipients of engineer neutralizers with WM and FA, and also Sci CC with Stasis and GS.

On the flip side, GOOD Tacs are also the most feared and are to be kept track of by ALL teammates, and called out simply because they can lay out a large amount of hurt in a short time.

A bit of advice, take it or leave it. If "fun" for you is not taking 30 dirt naps a match, and actually handing out dirt naps to your foes, then a Tac on ground should become skilled with rifles from the get-go. That way when it actually does matter at later levels, you will be comfortable with the style you already have.

If your goal is to "have fun" at lower levels...do what you want. Tacs have enough innate skills to make any combination of weapons affective.

I know this seems verbose, and long, but hopefully I have spelled out a compelling argument why Rifles "should" be the weapon of choice for any aspiring Tac who wants to "have fun" and be affective at endgame. My credibility for giving this advice may vary depending on who you talk to, but I am confident I at least will carry a "better than average" rating by anyone who recognizes my handle, so I feel comfortable that I am not talking out my ar$e in posting this response.

I have toons both Fed and Klingon at all tiers except Lt. and RA/BG and will be more then happy to enter a 1v1 private match with a Pistol apologist at any time to put this "advice" to the test. Just send me a tell, and I will make time. If you have an RA/BG you want to test, I am confident my Captain (Scruff) can prove my point against said RA/BG.

If the OP has any Tac questions, PLEASE look me up (send me mail or a tell) and I will be MORE than happy to work with you, test and answer any questions you may have. Seriously
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-14-2010, 12:33 PM
I was not suggesting pistols are a good option for tacs, heaven forbid, they're terrible for them.

I was stating they are an adequate choice for the support team trying to generate exploits, and not even an option I actually favour because I tend to prefer the longer range.

A tac's main job is to take down exposes. His secondary job is to also add over-watch and all the other nice debuffs. But if you're not hitting your targets for 2400 damage instantly vapourizing them once they're exposed, you're missing the point of your role.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-14-2010, 12:51 PM
If all this is true, then perhaps pistols could use a balance adjustment.
I never liked the expose exploit system, to be honest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pairadocks View Post

Even if you do not buy into the far range support for a Tac, Pistols just do not do enough damage to sustain high enough DPS to overcome Science and Engineer tricks, nor do they pack enough punch to pull off most Exploit shots. Couple this with a Tac only having defense of consumables, and pistols shorter range of effect bringing you into range of any weapon/pet the foe would have, the Tac puts themselves at a serious disadvantage using pistols.

Even if you are proficient with a stun pistol (I have seen SOME Tacs use it to an advantage), 1v1 against a skilled ground Engineer, Sci healer or Sci CC/Exposer, or a Tac skilled with rifles, even with awesome PvP ground skills (movement and tactics) will have you taking a dirt nap much more often than them if you are armed with only pistols. Couple that with the limited punch of the weapons themselves, you also most likely gimp your team also by not being able to hit hard enough.
Stun pistols have bad DPS because the stun shot does almost no damage. Other than that pistol DPS is the same as rifles with an equivalent effect, with the pistols having a higher rate of fire but lower burst damage.

Compression pistols are very competitive with rifles in their burst damage; their damage is second only to sniper rifles and the range on their secondary shot is equal to most rifles. The better mobility and rate of fire with a compression pistol can in some ways make them superior to sniper rifles.

The only thing really bad about pistols is that most of them are expose weapons, and expose weapons in general lack punch. With rifles the only one which is really outstanding is the sniper rifle; the other exploit rifles are similar damage to a compression pistol but with longer cooldowns. Either way, if a player sticks with their expose weapon most of the time and then just switches over for an exploit attack their DPS will suffer.

If you're looking for "best" then the best you can do is a sniper/compression combination, with skills fully supporting both. Other than that, if a player picks skills which support their kit, uses weapons to go along with those skills (melee and survivability skills tend to improve pistols, while DPS buffs tend to improve rifles) and primarily uses an exploit weapon rather than waiting for exposes they will do okay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-14-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm not a pvp-er, but I'd have to say, a dual-pistol exploit has been repeatedly shown to instantly incapacitate players in pve, without even needing an "exploit" state on the player. So, I'd go pistols.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-14-2010, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
If all this is true, then perhaps pistols could use a balance adjustment.
I never liked the expose exploit system, to be honest.
Pistols are fine, they just aren't always the best choice for Tacs.

Honestly the expose/exploit system isn't the best for Tacs either. Tactical officers need to do very high DPS, and expose weapons do less damage with only a 10% chance of generating an expose. For a Sci or Engi officer who has 2 or 3 other 10% exposes, one more from a weapon just pads their chances enough to make them reliable. Engineers and science officers can also generally take fire for longer than a Tac, so they can afford to hang out and wait for an expose.

But a Tactical officer can nearly one-shot people with a fully-buffed sniper shot from the flank. Even from the front and without buffs the Tac can make shields go poof. Tactical officers are the only ones who can improve DPS with skills, which makes it so they don't need the exposes before their exploit attacks do major damage.

The reason that pistols aren't a great choice for tacs is that only one type of pistol has an exploit attack, so a tac officer focussing on pistols basically loses the ability to swap weapons for a second exploit attack. Either that or you have to skill up both rifles and pistols and carry one of each (which actually isn't so awful when you consider that most of the defensive buffs improve with pistols while offensive buffs improve with rifles, it's just expensive).

The issue isn't as major for other classes since they don't have a skill investment forcing them one way or the other -- as long as they have some way to spread exposes around they're fine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-14-2010, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizonar
I never liked the expose exploit system, to be honest.
The expose system is important for the science balance. Each class has kinda different ways to kill in sto.

Tac's have the highest pure dmg (due to weapon skills) and almost all their abilities are focused on Improving/dealing direct dmg, they have just one expose chance from their optics, and the weakest defense. Their job usually isn't exposing, thats mostly a sci job, but dealing dmg.

Science on the other hand can pick between healing or exposing/cc'ing, their pure dmg is really low but they can get get up to 7 abilities with a 10 % expose chance each. Theres mostly three ways how to play sci: dedicated group healer, heal-tanks or exposer/cc. Vascular makes them mostly immune to exposes and if they focus on self healing (the heal-tank way to play) they can be tough to kill.

Engineers deal their dmg mostly through their drones and turrets or can go for neutralization/cc/cure (wm/fuse), they are due to reroute power to shields beeing a class ability naturally tough to kill regardless of the kit they use (different to scis!) and usually don't need exposes to win 1on1 situations either.

I think the expose system is fine, its unique to STO and allows to have all classes different ways how to deal dmg and its also adding some layer to teamplay as you can have someone on expose duty, usually thats rather going to be a sci, but due to expose weapons any class can, although not as efficient.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:09 AM.