Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Late Night Exchange Rant
08-14-2010, 09:21 PM
I don't care if you are selling a Borgified Mark XX Purple Antiproton Beam Array that can destroy any ship in one shot, I am not spending 1,500,000 credits on it.

I go to the exchange to see if there is anything I can use, and there isn't. The only thing I have ever bought there was a Mk X Bat'leth for my Vice Admiral (for Tactical Borg dissecting). And I can promise I paid no more than 25,000 for it. I have no problem paying a premium to save me some time, but give me a break. I went to look at deflectors and of the twelve listed I could only afford the first two.

I consider myself a casual player. Someone who gets on probably more than he should but not so much where my kids don't know who I am. Yet, I only have ~1,700,000 credits since playing since late February. And I sell everything. Unless I am using it, I sell it. I have ships sitting in my inventory, and not one, except the one I'm using, has equipment attached to it. When I put items in the exchange, it's because I want to get rid of it and I price it accordingly.

My point is this: you are selling this equipment at a premium with the hope someone will buy it instead of taking the time to earn it themselves. But the only people who can afford it are those who play the game enough to have already earned it themselves.

So, why?

/rant


Devs-
Perhaps a ceiling on certain items would be nice. Something to prevent the 15,999,999 price I saw earlier tonight. That's just insultingly stupid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
08-14-2010, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
I don't care if you are selling a Borgified Mark XX Purple Antiproton Beam Array that can destroy any ship in one shot, I am not spending 1,500,000 credits on it.

I go to the exchange to see if there is anything I can use, and there isn't. The only thing I have ever bought there was a Mk X Bat'leth for my Vice Admiral (for Tactical Borg dissecting). And I can promise I paid no more than 25,000 for it. I have no problem paying a premium to save me some time, but give me a break. I went to look at deflectors and of the twelve listed I could only afford the first two.

I consider myself a casual player. Someone who gets on probably more than he should but not so much where my kids don't know who I am. Yet, I only have ~1,700,000 credits since playing since late February. And I sell everything. Unless I am using it, I sell it. I have ships sitting in my inventory, and not one, except the one I'm using, has equipment attached to it. When I put items in the exchange, it's because I want to get rid of it and I price it accordingly.

My point is this: you are selling this equipment at a premium with the hope someone will buy it instead of taking the time to earn it themselves. But the only people who can afford it are those who play the game enough to have already earned it themselves.

So, why?

/rant


Devs-
Perhaps a ceiling on certain items would be nice. Something to prevent the 15,999,999 price I saw earlier tonight. That's just insultingly stupid.
Greed is the wheel the drives the ecenomy in any mmo resonable or sensable prices don't factor into people's price judgement just like people in wow go OFMG EPICZZZZ ... and then slam a 2000 gold price on it ... just so rediclous
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-14-2010, 09:29 PM
As it is right now, sellers can speculate on the Exchange to their hearts content because posting on the Exchange has no overhead costs. Now if there was a overhead charge involved with the Exchange, (lets say a 5% of the asking price fee collected weekly, drawn directly from the poster's account. If the ECs aren't there to do this, the object gets removed from the Exchange until the Posting fee is paid...) you would see prices rapidly fall to a true 'supply and demand' market price, as each Exchange slot would have to have a minimum cash flow to cover the overhead charge...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
08-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy.Otaku
As it is right now, sellers can speculate on the Exchange to their hearts content because posting on the Exchange has no overhead costs. Now if there was a overhead charge involved with the Exchange, (lets say a 5% of the asking price fee collected weekly, drawn directly from the poster's account. If the ECs aren't there to do this, the object gets removed from the Exchange until the Posting fee is paid...) you would see prices rapidly fall to a true 'supply and demand' market price, as each Exchange slot would have to have a minimum cash flow to cover the overhead charge...
I actually like this idea. Use the eBay model. I think the exchange would work better then. Right now, because prices are so stupid, I think some people who would otherwise use it, aren't. I know I usually sell my stuff to an NPC because I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the exchange due to the ridiculous prices. Something has to change for it to be useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-14-2010, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy.Otaku
Now if there was a overhead charge involved with the Exchange, (lets say a 5% of the asking price fee collected weekly, drawn directly from the poster's account. If the ECs aren't there to do this, the object gets removed from the Exchange until the Posting fee is paid...)
No, you would not see prices go down. They did this in City of Heroes when their auction system was introduced, and it didn't make any real difference at all on the crazy prices people set, albeit, people had already long since farmed their influence (money) long before the system was added.

Had STO put in a charge from the start, it might have actually had an impact on the in-game economy, but, as it stands now, almost 8 months into the game, people have already made loads of EC that to add a fee now would be inconsequential at best.

In the end, people are free to set whatever price they choose and thats the way it should be. If you don't want to pay that much, don't buy it. It may take longer to progress, but you can easily grind for decent items too.

Its not to say that I don't feel for ya, but I don't support price caps.

Also, Rules of Acquisition #142: Only fools sell wholesale.
------------------------------and #284: Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
08-14-2010, 09:51 PM
I cant help it if people buy things for a extremely high price.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
08-14-2010, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovereign View Post
Also, Rule of Acquisition #284: Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi.
Yes I am
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
08-14-2010, 09:54 PM
We have to come to face that this game doesn't really have an economy.

We can get virtually everything we want/need through NPC vendors. Now one might say that supply and demand are still in force and that is somewhat true. I want a Borgified Mark XX Antiproton Beam Array. If the price is right, then I might buy it. Or I will just earn it through in-game badges/mark/what-have-you.

Now lets say I don't want said item but get it as a drop. I think, I can sell this on the exchange. However, there is not set industry for this item so the seller can put it up for however high he/she wants. Say 1.5 mill EC. And why not? There is a chance that some loaded person is going to want the item so badly that they will spend said price.

Now in a normal free market, competition would put a damper on such high prices. Say said item could be created somehow in game. I could put the item up for 1.5 mill, but then a competitor could undercut me by however much they want. And the struggle goes on until an equlibrium in reached. This is made possible because the market is OPEN.

The in-game market is not OPEN. What is primarily placed on the market are drops. The exception are the crafted items, but they leave much to be desired. Not to say that people don't buy them, but given that one could earn a better item in a few days why spend the money?

All MMOs that have such an economy will have such overpricing. It is the nature of this beast. We could change the way the economy is done and I think we should. But I don't think the majority really want to change it and I don't think Cryptic wants to spend the time, money, and effort to do so either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
08-14-2010, 09:57 PM
The problem with the exchange is more than just crazy prices. The fact is there isn't much of an economy in STO at all.

To really have a vibrant economy in which rarity and such drive the price regime requires diversity and variety and the truth is there isn't much of it in STO. Every Plasma Sniper Rifle is the same, only the Marks are different.

Crafting is limited and isn't really worth doing unless you just happen to like it and there isn't anything else. What STO needs is an economy revamp.

Having said that we would also have to accept a higher level of complexity that there currently is to really see an in game economy.

Some examples would be like. Only the Federation sales phasers. Klingons sale disruptors, Romulans sale Plasma and so on and so forth. Ferengi could sale them all but only have limited stock at any time. Inside each catagory of weapons like lets say phasers there is different kinds of phasers as well as the marks. So you would have for example: Multi regenerative Phasers Mark IX. All ships would start with the standard issue types and can be modified by the captains.

Lets say a captain wants to outfit his Fed escort with Plasma cannons. He would either have to purchase them from a Ferengi or they could drop off a Romulan. What he doesn't want he puts on the Exchange.

Granted this is just a very small example of what I am talking about and the complexity would get much more complicated for us and the programmers but it would add so much to the game and the laws of supply and demand would help the prices. There would have to be a Klingon Exchange and a Federation Exchange etc.


Overall the point is the economy can be an important part of the game and allow some people who might otherwise get bored at VA something to do if the economy was fleshed out a lot more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-14-2010, 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
The problem with the exchange is more than just crazy prices. The fact is there isn't much of an economy in STO at all.

To really have a vibrant economy in which rarity and such drive the price regime requires diversity and variety and the truth is there isn't much of it in STO. Every Plasma Sniper Rifle is the same, only the Marks are different.

Crafting is limited and isn't really worth doing unless you just happen to like it and there isn't anything else. What STO needs is an economy revamp.

Having said that we would also have to accept a higher level of complexity that there currently is to really see an in game economy.

Some examples would be like. Only the Federation sales phasers. Klingons sale disruptors, Romulans sale Plasma and so on and so forth. Ferengi could sale them all but only have limited stock at any time. Inside each catagory of weapons like lets say phasers there is different kinds of phasers as well as the marks. So you would have for example: Multi regenerative Phasers Mark IX. All ships would start with the standard issue types and can be modified by the captains.

Lets say a captain wants to outfit his Fed escort with Plasma cannons. He would either have to purchase them from a Ferengi or they could drop off a Romulan. What he doesn't want he puts on the Exchange.

Granted this is just a very small example of what I am talking about and the complexity would get much more complicated for us and the programmers but it would add so much to the game and the laws of supply and demand would help the prices. There would have to be a Klingon Exchange and a Federation Exchange etc.


Overall the point is the economy can be an important part of the game and allow some people who might otherwise get bored at VA something to do if the economy was fleshed out a lot more.
Of course, a real Ferengi would mark up the prices 200% and probably sell you inferior equipment that would break or explode in your face after the first shot.
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