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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-22-2010, 09:47 AM
A general trick to deal with cruiser teams is - do everything you can to split them up. Lure them away. Use Tractor Beam Repulsors and stuff like that. Be ready to switch out some BOs - particularly if you are in a Cruiser vs Cruiser stalemate situation - drop some heals and get Boarding Parties or Eject Warp Plasma or Emergency Power to Weapons for some extra punch and disruption.

There are no guarantees, and not every PuG will be able to handle this. But that is kinda on what you're betting, too - if the other side are PuGs, too, your side might be the one that adapts, and their side does not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-22-2010, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilliamswku View Post
Speaking from a klingon perspective. Exactly what should i be doing in my carrier, other than healing? It's not like i'm going to forward face you and pew pew with my death cannons anytime during the match, now is it. So Lack of firepower/turn manueverability makes me uber healer.
Honestly, I run my carrier as a science "disruption" and CC ship since it's the Klingon science ship. I'm there to tractor beam, repulse away, shockwave, target subsystems, etc. whilst throwing out pew pew and annoying little fighters. You don't look pretty on the scoreboards, but if you do it right you can disrupt the coordination of the opposing team and open up opportunities for your teammates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-22-2010, 12:21 PM
[quote=Zorena]no you got it all wrong, a cruiser got uber healing a carrier doesn't[/QUOTE

my carrier does more healing per match than my cruiser. My carrier skills are.

Tac: Beam overload 1, Cannon Scatter 1, Cannon Rapid 2
Eng 1: Eps 1, Rsp1, Eps 3
Sci 1: Transfer Shield Str 1, Mask Energy Sig 2
Sci 2: Sci Team 1, Hazard emm 2, Hazard Emit 3, Tracter reulsors 3

My healing is usually 100-200k above anyone else, and my damage is about 1/2 to 2/3 of everyone else, so less dmg for alot more heal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-22-2010, 01:29 PM
[quote=jwilliamswku;2970725]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorena
no you got it all wrong, a cruiser got uber healing a carrier doesn't[/QUOTE

my carrier does more healing per match than my cruiser. My carrier skills are.

Tac: Beam overload 1, Cannon Scatter 1, Cannon Rapid 2
Eng 1: Eps 1, Rsp1, Eps 3
Sci 1: Transfer Shield Str 1, Mask Energy Sig 2
Sci 2: Sci Team 1, Hazard emm 2, Hazard Emit 3, Tracter reulsors 3

My healing is usually 100-200k above anyone else, and my damage is about 1/2 to 2/3 of everyone else, so less dmg for alot more heal.
Then youre just a bad Healingcruiser if your carrier tops that with 1xTSS1 ,1x ST1 ,1xHE2 and 1xHE3 since thats no real healing fit or a match for a good fitted healingcruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-23-2010, 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe
I think there's general agreement that here's too much healing at the high end.

I find whats effective against uber healing is AOE abilities... CPB and EWP scale up with more targets but healing does not. Similarly, I find that focus firing isn't necessarily a good idea against a team with a good healer, since they will just focus their healing... damage vulnerable targets and try to trip all the heal timers. Or more like, focus fire but jump your focus rapidly as opportunities arise.[..]
this is right. if somebody pops rsp or has 45324324 buffs on him, switch target, else my heals are back from cd. and for the ueber healing:

2 eng team 3: means every 15 secs ~10k heal
1 aux to struct 3: every 15 secs ~6k heal (slightly more when emergency power to aux is up)
2 hazard emitters: every 30 seconds ~10k over 15 secs duration

i don't see where this is ueber in any way, sorry. nerfing this would result in no heals at all.

since i play both, klingon and fed: you are lucky, when actually 1 (real) heal cruiser is in your team, and on fed side you are even more lucky when nobody goes full impulse right into you at the beginning, but that's another story.

there is maybe a problem when you engage 5 cruisers with 3xrsp slotted (shared cd is 30 secs, isn't it?), but on the other hand they won't do as much dmg as in more balanced groups. but actually rsp is the only thing which can save you for a short time against the insane dps. nerfing rsp have to include a nerf in dmg.

i haven't got real numbers since the weapon energy drain makes it a bit difficult when you actually don't want to make some real math here (sloth!), but stacking alpha+omega + rapid fire 2 gives around 2k dps on dual cannons. now, for gods sake lets say, one have 3 duals and 2 turrets (1k, just checked). i think this is a usual tac escort/raptor build.

this would mean 8k dps, now let's say energy drain reduces it to 5k cannon based dps over a 10 sec duration (but i would bet it's more, can anybody help out here?) + some torp dmg. in 10 seconds (one rapid fire cycle) you can deal 50k dmg without any torps and crits and no + and - resists, but let's assume you used fomm and the enemy some + resis and it's nearly 0%. and i can heal what? ~16k burst heal + some hazard emitters, to get nice numbers, let's say 25k + some shield healing. so at least the hull healing is nearly at 50% of the damage what can be easily achieved by any tac escort (no crits and no torps).

the extreme spike dmg is also a problem. what can be achieved with a beam overload 3 crit? i guess something around 20k, even more if the target is cc'ed . best thing i've seen so far was a tricobalt crit on me with 60k(!!!11eleven!!), hard to counter that one (but actually it happened only once in really many matches).

thing is, rsp is really annoying, but actually i can't survive a good alpha strike without it (and i've seen many feds who were unable to stand my alpha strike in my bop because they were too slow to hit rsp and just exploded within 4-5 seconds). a quick fix could be to raise the cd on multiple rsps, so you can only use 1 or maybe 2 copies of it. and don't forget, that it can be countered with subnuclear beam, mean energy drain or even with good old target shield subs alone.

sorry for the wall of text.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-23-2010, 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Ramone
a quick fix could be to raise the cd on multiple rsps, so you can only use 1 or maybe 2 copies of it.
Actually anything above 2x RSP is a waste since this will interfere with Global CD on it as you can make full use of 2x RSP within their shared CD's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-23-2010, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizhel
Actually anything above 2x RSP is a waste since this will interfere with Global CD on it as you can make full use of 2x RSP within their shared CD's.
kk, was not sure about that because i actually use only 1 rsp . for some reason i had 30 secs gcd in mind. well, then just make the gcd = cd so one can use only one copy of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-23-2010, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
A general trick to deal with cruiser teams is - do everything you can to split them up. Lure them away. Use Tractor Beam Repulsors and stuff like that. Be ready to switch out some BOs - particularly if you are in a Cruiser vs Cruiser stalemate situation - drop some heals and get Boarding Parties or Eject Warp Plasma or Emergency Power to Weapons for some extra punch and disruption.

There are no guarantees, and not every PuG will be able to handle this. But that is kinda on what you're betting, too - if the other side are PuGs, too, your side might be the one that adapts, and their side does not.
I love TB now that I reskilled for it - but I do wish we could "tow" the targets for the duration of its effects.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-23-2010, 07:33 AM
the only thing that sucks about healing ships are when they dont heal.

I get so mad when in my escort i am in a team of 4 engi cruisers and i die from bleedthrough under RSP.

healing makes being an escort more manageable. While a good escort player can tank 2+ ships they can never survive focus fire for a very long time, thats why healers are needed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Healer ships are fine(if not weak).You cant show me a cruiser I cant eat with my BoP in 30(max 40) secs.(I am a tactical so I dont have subnuub beam btw)

Imo BoPs/escorts/raptors rule PvP atm.
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